alchemist Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, sarookha said: And isn't a lifted Reatta what we've all been dreaming of 🤣🤣🤣 A rear-end jacked-up front wheel drive Reatta. SMDH... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS.01 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, alchemist said: Or just thinner bushings... Or no bushings. …there is also another possibility that I am exploring in parallel with the adapter work being done by alchemist. too early to discuss, and don’t want to derail progress made so far either… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarookha Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, alchemist said: Those are the same air assist struts as used on the Riviera. I have a new set of those in the garage, Monroe 71801 is the part number. If they have them in stock, may want to buy. I picked up the last set on Rock Auto for $41 per strut. They will work but may need to do something to lightly pressurize the air bladder when in use, or cut it off. Maybe. I don't see enough info on the Universal site to verify that. I'd hate to pay $220 per strut for a $41 part... But if the $41 part is not a reality anymore, then there isn't actually a basis for comparison, other than for historical reference. I'm not familiar with the Air Ride concept. Is this simply adjustable shocks, like my 1981 Buick Estate Wagon had been fitted with? Or are we talking about the genre that does lifted Impalas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS.01 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, alchemist said: SMDH Had to ask the kids what that meant…🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 On 3/5/2023 at 1:52 PM, DPS.01 said: The top assembly may need to be redesigned to thread on the outside of the OEM strut body vs. the inside due to overall body length increase that would be required to use KYB top gland nut (below). I know the current thinking is to have a replaceable strut cartridge setup on the rear and I agree that would be ideal. But when I look at the above photo the retired machinist in me thinks why not just Heliarc (to control excessive heat) the two parts together? if you want simplicity and cost savings that might be the way to go. To make it as DIY as possible the body of the original strut might could be cut with a pipe cutter (no precision sawing needed to get the end square) by almost anyone once correct dimensions are established. Then take the parts to someone who can do the welding. How often would the cartridge need changing on a Reatta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I know the current thinking is to have a replaceable strut cartridge setup on the rear and I agree that would be ideal. But when I look at the above photo the retired machinist in me thinks why not just Heliarc (to control excessive heat) the two parts together? if you want simplicity and cost savings that might be the way to go. To make it as DIY as possible the body of the original strut cold be cut with a pipe cutter (no precision sawing needed to get the end square) by almost anyone once correct dimensions are established. Then take the parts to someone who can do the welding. How often would the cartridge need changing on a Reatta? As there are no more oem struts being made, welding the gland nut in place may make the housing no longer usable, plus I bet there will be linear rattle without the gland nut torqued in place and holding the strut secure. The adapter I am proposing will allow for infinite replacement unless the rest of the housing rusts away. The plan is to TIG the adapter in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 minute ago, alchemist said: As there are no more oem struts being made, welding the gland nut in place may make the housing no longer usable, plus I bet there will be linear rattle without the gland nut torqued in place and holding the strut secure. The adapter I am proposing will allow for infinite replacement unless the rest of the housing rusts away. The plan is to TIG the adapter in place. Your way is the best way to go. I was just thinking out loud about an easy way to do it. I hadn't considered the torque needed to hold the cartridge in place at the bottom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 I don't think it will work with no bushing, aside from the increased possible noise transmission. The lower control arm moves in a bit of an arc and the strut housing is held rigidly so I would think the top must have some compliance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, 2seater said: The lower control arm moves in a bit of an arc and the strut housing is held rigidly so I would think the top must have some compliance ? If I understand correctly what you are saying, I think the knuckle pivoting on the bolt that connects it to the control arm will prevent lateral stress on the rod as the strut moves up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Ronnie said: If I understand correctly what you are saying, I think the knuckle pivoting on the bolt that connects it to the control arm will prevent lateral stress on the rod as the strut moves up and down. Yes, I agree the lower mount rotates so the top can point to the same location. However, the bottom location is moving in and out as it travels, so the angle the top intersects with the upper bushing is constantly changing. It may not be a great deal, but I do not think the upper mount can be rigid. What I was crudely suggesting is something similar to the threaded extension, but not female to male, simply a tubular female threaded sleeve that extends through the bushings and be welded to a nut or some other item to allow rotating the sleeve to tighten. Yes it would require the center of the bushings and washers to be opened up, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 From looking at examples, I guess what I mean is a sleeve nut. I will leave it to the machinist to decide if that is a viable idea or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 2 hours ago, 2seater said: From looking at examples, I guess what I mean is a sleeve nut. I will leave it to the machinist to decide if that is a viable idea or not. Not certain if I am being referred to as the machinist. 🙂 If so, that is one of the nicer things I have been called! Anyhow, the upper mount question is definitely a valid concern. The sleeve would definitely need to be a heat treated to give it the strength and toughness needed for the application. Being a metallurgist who works for a heat treatment company, I can certainly handle that. So, the sleeve nut would clamp and hold the lower washer in place. The sleeve nut would be long enough to pass through the lower bushing, mounting bracket (with drilled out hole) and upper bushing, and then a bolt would be needed to capture the upper washer. So, I am still going ahead with a prototype adapter for proof of concept, having some 3D printed in the next day or two. My question is this; should we brainstorm further and parallel path other solutions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Maybe professionals would be a better term🤔 I don’t know the exact form an upper mount would take but I do believe it needs to have a little flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, 2seater said: Maybe professionals would be a better term🤔 That works. In reality, I am a materials engineer by formal training. Have worked in foundries and heat treatment companies over the past thirty or so years. Most of my customers are OEM's, foundries, forgers and machine shops so my mind is equally mechanical. The voices never stop. 😉 Edited March 9, 2023 by alchemist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS.01 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) Food 4 Thought… the drop on cartridge is originally designed for front struts that need to move in a similar fashion as the rear struts on the Reatta. in the original application, the cartridge is held in place by the supplied upper gland nut that threads into the inside of the strut body. the gland nut is beveled to mate with the top of the insert cartridge and keep it in alignment at the top of the assembly. the bottom of the OEM strut body is concave and allows the cartridge to center itself in the lower strut body. there are no shims, collars etc along the insert cartridge to keep it in alignment with the strut body. the gland nut is torqued to (? ft/lb) and holds the entire cartridge in alignment. So… thread the Reatta OEM strut body with the correct thread size and pitch. The area of the body to be threaded is ~3 mm thick. the threads on the aftermarket gland nut are ~1.5 mm deep. making the assumption (good or bad) that the Reatta strut body is similar is thickness and strength, this should work. looking into this with a machinist later this week to validate. if the OEM strut body can be successfully threaded, the problem would be solved. the strut cartridge is installed in the photo below, and the gland nut is resting on the inner ledge where the OEM strut body was machined to accept the original upper alignment bushing. the material that the gland nut is resting on would be threaded to allow the gland nut to thread in and hold the strut cartridge in place. as I see it, worst case it doesn’t work (and the OEM body is not damaged) and we use the adapter option… best case the adapter is not needed. now… what is being overlooked? Edited March 9, 2023 by DPS.01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, DPS.01 said: Food 4 Thought… the drop on cartridge is originally designed for front struts that need to move in a similar fashion as the rear struts on the Reatta. in the original application, the cartridge is held in place by the supplied upper gland nut that threads into the inside of the strut body. the gland nut is beveled to mate with the top of the insert cartridge and keep it in alignment at the top of the assembly. the bottom of the OEM strut body is concave and allows the cartridge to center itself in the strut body. there are no shims, collars etc along the insert cartridge to keep it in alignment with the strut body. the gland nut is torqued to (? ft/lb) and holds the cartridge in alignment. So… thread the Reatta OEM strut body with the correct thread size and pitch. The area of the body to be threaded is ~3 mm thick. the threads on the aftermarket gland nut are ~1.5 mm. making the assumption (good or bad) that the Reatta strut body is similar is thickness and strength, this should work. looking into this with a machinist later this week to validate. if the OEM strut body can be successfully threaded, the problem would be solved. the strut cartridge is installed in the photo below, and the gland nut is resting on the inner ledge where the OEM strut body was machined to accept the original upper alignment bushing. the material that the gland nut is resting on would be threaded to allow the gland nut to thread in and hold the strut cartridge in place. as I see it, worst case it doesn’t work and we use the adapter option… best case the adapter is not needed. now… what is being overlooked? Ahh!!! So the step in the original housing is causing the gland nut to stop. How much distance is there from the step to the top of the strut cartridge? Needs to be substantial to allow for thread engagement. If this is the case, a proper tap would allow for the existing housing to be threaded to accept the gland nut. Would still need to have the insert strut contained so it is always coaxial with the original strut housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS.01 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 there should be enough material to thread to allow for engagement of all the gland nut threads. the strut cartridge is kept in alignment automatically due to the beveled design of the gland nut and bottom of the strut body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alchemist Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, DPS.01 said: there should be enough material to thread to allow for engagement of all the gland nut threads. the strut cartridge is kept in alignment automatically due to the beveled design of the gland nut and bottom of the strut body. So, how much depth. I can calculate the engagement needed versus the yield strength and fatigue properties of the housing. So the gland nut end is kept coaxial, what about the far/opposite end? Edited March 9, 2023 by alchemist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS.01 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 minute ago, alchemist said: So the gland nut end is kept coaxial, what about the far/opposite end? the bottom of the OEM strut body is concave and allows the cartridge to center itself in the lower strut body. I will see what kind of measurements I can take with regard to depth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS.01 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 40 minutes ago, alchemist said: So, how much depth. I can calculate the engagement needed versus the yield strength and fatigue properties of the housing. with the cartridge installed and the gland nut inserted until it hits the lower ledge of the strut body, there is 1/2 inch of play between the top of the cartridge and the bottom of the gland nut. the threaded portion of the gland nut is 1/2 inch. the OEM strut body will need to be cut down (shorten the overall length) to ensure the gland nut does not bottom out on the OEM strut body before compressing against the upper portion of the cartridge insert. due to the position of the threads on the gland nut, there is complete (1/2 inch) thread engagement. if the OEM strut body is strong enough, this should be viable…. unless of course, something is being overlooked… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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