Can't disconnect front brake hose from metal feed.

[Padgett]

Difference is the shape of the seat. One is a cone, other is inverted. Both provide a positive lock on the line which a compression fitting does not.

[2seater]

4 hours ago, Philbo said:

I had never known that. I've only worked on cars that use the SAE type flare.

 

How do you make a bubble type flare? Assuming you need a different type of flaring kit?

Yes, it is a different tool for the bubble type. The nice thing is it is a single step process and it seems much less sensitive to slight errors in fabrication. I use that style for repairs or coupling pieces even if the type of terminal connection is different. Simple to make, even under the car, secure and leak free.

[Ronnie]

On 9/14/2021 at 6:55 PM, fun car guy said:

My Reatta is 32 years old so this connection has never been opened since it was built.  Naturally, there's corrosion making it almost impossible to remove the old hose.  I've wrapped it with cloth and soaked it with power blaster but it just won't budge, any ideas?

Could you post a photo of the fitting. Being from the south where little salt is used I'm not use to corrosion bad enough that you can't disconnect a fitting. I would like to see what it looks like.

[fun car guy]

On 9/19/2021 at 9:57 PM, Ronnie said:

Whatever you do, don't let anyone talk you into using a compression fitting on brake line tubing.

Here's what I'm dealing with.  You can clearly see how rounded off it is by my attempts to break it free using first, open end, then flare and finally vice grip pliers to no avail.  As soon as I took the wheel off I could see that this caliper wasn't working because of the lack of bright metal on the rotor and knew the flex hose was bad.  My plan is to use my Dremel tool to cut the feed tubing just below the connection, get a new fitting bringing it in to the parts dealer to match tubing diameter, slide it on, flare the tube (something new to me) and hook things up.  Once I get this sorted it's back to the remaining rear that I couldn't bleed but it looks like it's working so I may not bother with it.  As always, thanks for your help.

[Ronnie]

Before you cut the line give it one more try. Drive a small screwdriver with a thin blade between the spring clip and the bracket in the area highlighted in blue in your photo below to push the clip down. Then stick a small Philips screwdriver (or other small steel rod) into the hole (pointed to with the red arrow) and rip the clip off the hose. There isn't anything to that clip so should come right off. (see second photo)

 

That might free the bracket from the hose and allow it to slide down around the tubing out of the way so you can get a better grip on the fittings.

 

[2seater]

I don't remember exactly but it is very likely the hose end on top of the mounting is keyed or otherwise kept from rotating due to the shape of the hose end. In other words, the hose won't rotate when installed and is likely that way due to the rotating nature of the front brake hose. The only thing that will rotate is the tube fitting. Looking at that setup, there may be enough material to do the flare on the remaining tube but my guess is a splice may need to be made somewhere else.

[Padgett]

My guess is you need a bigger hammer.

 

[Philbo]

3 hours ago, 2seater said:

I don't remember exactly but it is very likely the hose end on top of the mounting is keyed

I bet it is keyed. That's how the brake lines on my '95 GMC suburban are (which I am replacing right now).  Knowing GM it is the same or very similar part (see picture)

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Philbo

[Ronnie]

It probably is keyed. My thinking is if you take the clip off the bottom that holds the hose down in the bracket you could slide the bracket out of the way. Once that is done I think you could put a small pipe wrench around the remaining metal part of the hose and a small pipe wrench on the fitting for the tubing that screws into it and break the fittings loose. Yes I know that is a crude way to do it but sometimes brute force is what is needed to get the job done. A pipe wrench can put more clamping force and more bite on the fittings than any channel lock or vice grip pliers. The harder you pull on the handle of a pipe wrench the tighter it squeezes.

[Philbo]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

A pipe wrench can put more clamping force and more bite

I don't know why, but I have literally never thought of using a pipe wrench in these situations.  I'm going to keep that in my back pocket

[Ronnie]

3 minutes ago, Philbo said:

I don't know why, but I have literally never thought of using a pipe wrench in these situations.  I'm going to keep that in my back pocket

As a machinist you get in situations where nothing is off limits. You want to do things the right right way but sometimes you can't. Heat, sledge hammers and cutting torches were used frequently on the railroad where everything is big, heavy and rusty.  Sometimes you have to tear something up before you can fix it. 🙂

[2seater]

3 hours ago, Philbo said:

I don't know why, but I have literally never thought of using a pipe wrench in these situations.  I'm going to keep that in my back pocket

The pipe wrench doesn't have to be large, which is the image that springs to mind. Something 8"-10" for the size we are looking at. put a short length of pipe over the handle for more leverage. I know I have crushed pipes when trying to remove one that's rusted/stuck due to the clamping force available when twisting. It would need to be pulled free of the bracket as Ronnie said to be able to get something around it. 

[fun car guy]

On 9/21/2021 at 6:00 PM, Padgett said:

My guess is you need a bigger hammer.

 

I always know I can count on you to add a bit of humor to the situation.

[fun car guy]

On 9/21/2021 at 2:01 PM, Ronnie said:

Before you cut the line give it one more try. Drive a small screwdriver with a thin blade between the spring clip and the bracket in the area highlighted in blue in your photo below to push the clip down. Then stick a small Philips screwdriver (or other small steel rod) into the hole (pointed to with the red arrow) and rip the clip off the hose. There isn't anything to that clip so should come right off. (see second photo)

 

That might free the bracket from the hose and allow it to slide down around the tubing out of the way so you can get a better grip on the fittings.

 

Thanks Ronnie, I'll give it another try but if it doesn't work I'll just cut the line and grind the #@&% thing off and be done with it!  I hope it will at least free the clip so I can reuse it.

[Ronnie]

New clips are available at Advance and most of the other parts stores. Don't worry about tearing it up to get it off. Good luck!

[fun car guy]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:43 PM, 2seater said:

I hope this works. I tried a copy and paste but that doesn't work. I hope this helps explain. The Reatta uses most, if not all connections as the metric bubble or ISO flare. They are very easy to make, especially in a splicing situation.

 

Brake Line Flares: Metric & SAE, Inverted & Bubble - Race & Track Driving (formerly Win HPDE) (racetrackdriving.com)

Thanks 2seater, yes the link you sent worked and clarifies just what a bubble flair looks like.  Much apperciated!

[fun car guy]

Ok, ready or not here's the latest on this issue.  Just learned nobody rents a flanging tool that can make a balloon flange and the cost to buy one is over $300.00!  I haven't tried the suggestion of pipe wrenches but if that fails, I now have an 8" prefab piece of steel/copper brake line (new product) with a balloon flange on each end purchased from AutoZone.  Should it become necessary, I'll cut the old line near the junction and add appropriate length of the new piece of tubing with a flange on one end.  Then, with a piece of the next larger steel tubing, make a sleeve to join the two and solder it much as you would a copper water pipe, grind off the old junction and then assemble everything.  Otherwise, I would have to replace the entire line from the master.  Any suggestions, recommendations?

[DAVES89]

Go to Amazon and type in "Bubble flaring tool" and you will some for well under $50.00

[Ronnie]

52 minutes ago, fun car guy said:

Then, with a piece of the next larger steel tubing, make a sleeve to join the two and solder it much as you would a copper water pipe, grind off the old junction and then assemble everything.  O

If you did that I would be afraid to ride in that car. No disrespect intended. I'm just afraid of going to far outside the norm on brake repairs. Copper water lines operate at about 60 psi and brake lines operate at 1000 psi or more. Solder joints were never intended to hold that much pressure. Just my 2 cents.

[fun car guy]

36 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

Go to Amazon and type in "Bubble flaring tool" and you will some for well under $50.00

Once again, thanks Dave.  Naturally I'd much prefer to simply cut the old line and flare it as was intended.

14 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

If you did that I would be afraid to ride in that car. No disrespect intended. I'm just afraid of going to far outside the norm on brake repairs. Copper water lines operate at about 60 psi and brake lines operate at 1000 psi or more. Solder joints were never intended to hold that much pressure. Just my 2 cents.

Sigh* okay then, thanks for your input.  I'm going to check into Amazon for a bubble flaring tool.