PCV valve replacement problem... the hose

[Alchemy333]

So... figured I'd replace the cheapest valve on the engine (as discussed in another post re: idle issue) on this 90 Reatta project. It was hell to get off with no instructions... mainly the hose off to get the valve off. Did my best to "finesse" it out of the lower grommet, then off of the hose... as the other way around wasn't working out for me. The both grommets were fine.

 

Question/issue is... the hose ended up splitting, so I attempted removal for replacement. Is it just simply a grommet with a little hose attached, or is it attached to something else internally. Judging by looking at the back side of the upper grommet, it looks like it was attached to something that broke off. I put my finger in there to see... and felt something that apparently fell into the intake manifold... because I dont feel it anymore.

 

Am I looking at taking the manifold off to replace a part? Because, the only reatta pcv hose replacements I find look like a whole big line of things. If so, pulling the manifold and replacing the gaskets is probably wise, even to retrieve what fell in. Is there a list of parts I need to order to get this job done? One thing after another with this damn thing. And I had just got it running half way decent...lol

 

We will save the newly painted fender bender incident the other day... by my neighbor pulling into her drive way distracted... first day I ungaraged it overnight, for another day...ffs.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Alchemy333

[2seater]

The grommet with hose doesn't attach to anything inside the manifold, however the inner flange of the grommet is now missing, so that's inside. I would guess others will disagree, but I wouldn't worry about it. It will be pulverized by the pulsing inside the manifold and there are no supper tight clearances inside the cylinders. Pieces could hold a valve open momentarily causing a miss, but the engine will eat that piece. The alternative is to pull the intake manifold and renew the intake gaskets as well as cleanup the EGR valve and gaskets. 

[Alchemy333]

I decided to just take this opportunity to just do the deal. It will give me an opportunity to inspect my rockers and bearings for that rattle and rule out the internals and gaskets for that misfire. Ill be able to inspect and rewrap my wiring harness as well (unless there is an affordable aftermarket). That grommet was pretty rock solid. Only cost me 160 in felpro and parts (so far). I feel i should probably locate a service manual at this point lol.

 

Here's my list from Amazon. I ordered the broken grommet replacement from rock auto and just need to match a replacement pcv hose. I'll inspect the cam magnet situation too.. Anything else I should service or need to order/upgrade while I got this all apart?

[2seater]

If you are replacing the timing set it only makes sense to install a new magnet. What pcv hose? There are two grommets plus the valve itself. The one grommet has a hose like extension, but no discreet hose. The pcv inlet pipe in the front valve cover is formed steel and a formed rubber hose where it connects to the throttle body. Install a new bypass hose between the front cover and the intake manifold, it is a formed ~90* hose. You do not need to remove the throttle body and MAF assembly when removing the intake manifold. Take it off in one piece but you may need to disconnect the fuel line clamp on the steel lines by the EGR to allow the lines to swing out of the way.

[Alchemy333]

5 hours ago, 2seater said:

What pcv hose? There are two grommets plus the valve itself. The one grommet has a hose like extension, but no discreet hose. The pcv inlet pipe in the front valve cover is formed steel and a formed rubber hose where it connects to the throttle body. Install a new bypass hose between the front cover and the intake manifold, it is a formed ~90* hose.

I couldn't find the grommet with attached hose. I ordered one from Rock auto thas the right size and placement. I figured I'd take both in to my local auto part store and have the piece of hose size matched. Im also having trouble finding the magnet. I found one on amazon... but, delivery is 2 weeks... still looking.  Are you are talking about the bypass coolant line. I replaced that with the water pump last month... it was leaking a bit and rotted outish.

[Alchemy333]

Ok. I found the magnet and appropriate grommet on ebay. But I'm not finding that inlet pipe for the valve cover area. Is it a crucial replacement?

[2seater]

4 hours ago, Alchemy333 said:

Ok. I found the magnet and appropriate grommet on ebay. But I'm not finding that inlet pipe for the valve cover area. Is it a crucial replacement?

No, it doesn’t need to be replaced. I was just listing the parts involved in the total pcv system trying to clarify the comment about a “hose”. In a perfect and non hardened world, just the pcv valve itself is all to be replaced.

[Alchemy333]

@Ronnie @2seater

I'm about to start intake manifold and timing chain work. Best I am aware, there will be a torqued center cam bolt to secure the sprocket. I havn't found a solid answer as to how I should "safely" keep it all from spinning. Some say the vice grips on the flywheel is fine, others say invest in the $200 tool or you crack the block. All 2gen 3800 advice of course... as it is most of what I find, and the downloaded manual is unclear at best.  I've been using my impact for the crank bolt (starter method release)... so havn't dealt with this issue yet. What is your best advice?

 

And as for aligning the timing points on both gears prior to removal... ratchet on the cam gear? Or, put the bolt in the shaft and spin from the crank only? I know if neither shafts are moved.. it should be fine either way. But, shooting for peace of mind vs. Murphys law this round...lol

[2seater]

Cam sprocket and balance shaft gear is retained by three small bolts. It isn't an issue to hold the cam still while torquing. Use blue Loctitie on the bolts. It will be nigh on impossible to spin the engine over from a cam bolt. Use the crank bolt. Without the chain connecting the cam to the crank, the cam and balance shaft are free to rotate on their own, but the tension from the lifters and valve springs will tend to keep it in place. Balance shaft at top, balance shaft gear installed on camshaft in middle, crankshaft at bottom.

 

, c

[Ronnie]

5 hours ago, Alchemy333 said:

Best I am aware, there will be a torqued center cam bolt to secure the sprocket.

That might apply to the old 3.8 that didn't have a balance shaft. Your 3800 should have a cam button in the center and three small bolts hoilding the cam sprocket on. Be sure to install the cam position sensor magnet from the rear of the sprocket. 2seater gave you good advice. He is the go-to guy on 3800 engines.

[2seater]

This is a pic from my teardown of the 1995 s/c engine, the last of the true Series I engines. The cam uses a large single center bolt as a retainer and no cam button. I imagine Series 2 are similar. 

 

[Alchemy333]

Update: found the end of the grommet in the rear head. It was hard as a rock. Not sure I'd be comfortable with that going through my valves...lol

 

The other discovery was my intake and throttle body was gummed up with black thick oil residue. So, unless I got a bad set of rings somewhere, im pretty sure the PCV had been an issue for quite some time... and this all should solve the rough idle/misfire situation.

 

Im gonna reassemble the top end tomorrow and get the timing chain done by Wednesday. I did find a couple coppers showing on some wiring. So I want to run-through and rewrap the harness also. I'll update with the running status in a few days.

[2seater]

Progress👍   As well as the PCV, a major contributor to the grunge inside the intake manifold is the EGR and the remnants of combustion released by open intake valves upon engine shutdown. There are always one or more partially open when stopped and the hot vapors rise. 

[1989reatta79106]

So how does the cam button install and get replaced.

[Alchemy333]

1 hour ago, 1989reatta79106 said:

So how does the cam button install and get replaced.

Snaps into its assigned hole from the backside of the cam sprocket

[Ronnie]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:56 AM, Ronnie said:

Your 3800 should have a cam button in the center and three small bolts holding the cam sprocket on.

35 minutes ago, Alchemy333 said:

Snaps into its assigned hole from the backside of the cam sprocket

I should have been more careful in the terminology I used for the cam button I was referring to. It is actually called the Camshaft Thrust Button (below) that is in the center of the camshaft.

 

Acchemy333 is correct. The camshaft position sensor magnet snaps into the back of the camshaft sprocket.

 

[1989reatta79106]

Sorry, let me rephrase my question. The camshaft thrust button / bearing removal and replace procedure?

[2seater]

The thrust bearing and spring assembly is simply a friction fit in the nose of the camshaft. Once the front cover is removed from the engine, it is right at the front. Nothing more needs to be disassembled. It is a very reliable piece that I have never had to replace. Caveat: I did purchase one when I was swapping camshafts only because the bored hole for the spring was a different diameter.

 

Edit: The cam button is visible in the front center of the cam sprocket in the photos above

Edited May 15, 2023 by 2seater

[1989reatta79106]

Thanks for the clarification, yall are the best!

[Alchemy333]

Got it all back together. Acceleration is smoother and the timing chain replacement seems to have eliminated the mystery rattle. Still got the misfire issue. Im gonna grab a fuel preassure gauge. But I'm having a new theory now. What if the new harmonic balancer i bought is the real problem? 

 

I've swapped 3 crank sensors now, and every time it takes me about 5 or 6 adjustments to get it just right or it rubs and squeaks... even though I can visually see the gap is fine. Today, I adjusted it from squeaking and I had a no start situation.

 

I hate to pull it all off again, but I was looking more closely at the metal spacers (while installed) and it appeared one was possible a little tweaked or bent. This was one of the HB's that was a little bit thicker where I had to bump out the bracket with a couple washers for clearance.

 

Has anyone had an issue like this? I feel it is possible this was affecting signal of the multiple new ICMs that were not working if this is the case. Because, the no start adjustment I made had the exact same symptoms as when I replaced the ICMs. Only the original one would work... which is installed now.

 

Let me know what you guys think... thanx!

 

@Ronnie 

@2seater

Edited May 18, 2023 by Alchemy333