2seater Posted December 21, 2021 Topic Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Ronnie, is it really ES03 twice on each test cycle?? It should be -04 for the largest orifice opening or maybe there is a display glitch?? The progression sounds exactly correct. I remember we had a puff of smoke from the approximate area of the EGR when it did a cough back through the intake when Dave and I first looked at the car but could find no apparent leaks or other causes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, 2seater said: Ronnie, is it really ES03 twice on each test cycle?? It should be -04 for the largest orifice opening or maybe there is a display glitch?? The progression sounds exactly correct. I remember we had a puff of smoke from the approximate area of the EGR when it did a cough back through the intake when Dave and I first looked at the car but could find no apparent leaks or other causes. No. I went back and corrected it. That's what I get for copy and pasting . Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 45 minutes ago, Philbo said: So this might be a little left field, but could it possibly be the catalytic converter going bad? I guess that might be possible. I've never had a converter plugged but I've had mufflers plugged on carbureted cars and they just lost power and didn't want to go. Don't remember any bucking like Dave described. Cadillac's in the ''60s and '70s were bad for that happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Exhaust was replaced not many miles ago by the P.O. I know it's not that. I have experienced a clogged converter before. Plenty of power in all RPM ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, 2seater said: I remember we had a puff of smoke from the approximate area of the EGR when it did a cough back through the intake when Dave and I first looked at the car but could find no apparent leaks or other causes. Since Dave's car only starts acting up in when warm and in closed loop, and knowing you saw a puff of smoke near the EGR, I'm wondering if the tube going between the EGR and the exhaust manifold might have a problem allowing raw air to enter the EGR instead of exhaust gases? That might account for Dave's engine running better than mine when opening the EGR valves with overrides. And it might make an overly lean condition that would cause the bucking he describes. Just thinking out loud..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I will look at it tomorrow as I hate it when work and Pickleball gets in the way. Car will be ice cold tomorrow so it will be a better test. I do think I am on the right path. I'm so optimistic I think that I will be putting the ECM back in it's place and buttoning everything back up inside the car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philbo Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, Ronnie said: I guess that might be possible. I've never had a converter plugged but I've had mufflers plugged on carbureted cars and they just lost power and didn't want to go. Don't remember any bucking like Dave described. Cadillac's in the ''60s and '70s were bad for that happening I have never had it either. I thought of it because I think somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that this car has always gotten worse gas mileage for some reason. Maybe 200k miles of running rich could be the cause of a bad converter? I've never heard of bucking from a bad converter either, but I am also not super familiar with what symptoms it can cause to be honest. It's not something I've ever had to deal with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted December 22, 2021 Topic Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 Interesting ideas and conjectures. Air leaks can sure do funny things, especially if upstream of the O2 sensor or the EGR. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 12 hours ago, Philbo said: I have never had it either. I thought of it because I think somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that this car has always gotten worse gas mileage for some reason. Maybe 200k miles of running rich could be the cause of a bad converter? I've never heard of bucking from a bad converter either, but I am also not super familiar with what symptoms it can cause to be honest. It's not something I've ever had to deal with. The Black '89 that 2seaters son now drives had a bad convertor. I took it off and with a long pry bar busted up the broken pieces and then shook the convertor until they dropped out. His car now looks like a convertor but is really a straight pipe. I've had two failed convertors in my life. One was on a Dodge "k" car and the '89 Black. Car will just not breathe and will not accelerate. Best test I found is any highway on ramp. Put your foot in it and if it just lags going up the ramp it is bad. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 13 hours ago, Ronnie said: Here are the results I got testing my EGR valve using overrides in diagnostics. Before starting engine after sitting overnight all 3 EGR valves will click when pushing the overrides buttons. On cold startup and entering diagnostics with engine running. ES02 (EGR Solenoid #1) - Rougher than normal idle ES03 (EGR Solenoid #2) - Rough idle with some stumbling ES04 (EGR Solenoid #3) - Really rough idle and stumbling badly Engine warmed up to 170* with "loop" light lit and O2 sensor light flashing with engine running ES02 (EGR Solenoid #1) - Rough idle but still keeps running. ES03 (EGR Solenoid #2) - Rough idle and stumbling like it wants to die but will keep running ES04 (EGR Solenoid #3) - Stumbles badly and dies in a few seconds I checked several times with same results and verified the override numbers I posted are correct. Seems our readings are opposite as far as the override numbers. Could you test again using the same override numbers I posted above? Cold 02 slightly Rougher idle 03 Rough idle 04 Rough idles with stumbling Warm [loop light on] started at 170 finished at 188 degrees 02 slightly rougher idle 03 rough idle 04 stumbles badly but does not die. Then corrects itself to a slightly rougher idle then 03. Warm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted December 22, 2021 Topic Author Share Posted December 22, 2021 1 hour ago, DAVES89 said: Cold 02 slightly Rougher idle 03 Rough idle 04 Rough idles with stumbling Warm [loop light on] started at 170 finished at 188 degrees 02 slightly rougher idle 03 rough idle 04 stumbles badly but does not die. Then corrects itself to a slightly rougher idle then 03. Warm It seems the solenoids are working in the EGR but either there is a partial obstruction or an air leak as surmised by Ronnie. The obstruction might be a loose piece that falls out of the path but gets sucked back in after activation? The good thing is the valve is right on top and accessible, bad news is it is eight degrees F right now and a fairly stiff breeze on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 12 minutes ago, 2seater said: It seems the solenoids are working in the EGR but either there is a partial obstruction or an air leak as surmised by Ronnie. The obstruction might be a loose piece that falls out of the path but gets sucked back in after activation? The good thing is the valve is right on top and accessible, bad news is it is eight degrees F right now and a fairly stiff breeze on top of it. That is what I'm thinking as well. The gasket and the ports under the EGR should be checked. and the pipe that runs between the EGR and the exhaust manifold should be inspected. The EGR should be replaced if you have a spare since you will have it off. No way I would be working on anything in 8* weather unless it is an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 8 degrees? It my garage it is almost 30 with no wind. Easier in my unheated garage then being out in the elements at Gibsons. Trick is to run the car and then replace when it is still warm. I have 4 replacements in the parts bin and as luck would have it my machinist friend Bob stopped by and picked out the replacement. as we know the EGR is on top and I have an extra gasket so should be pretty straight forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I hope you can actually see what's causing the problem when you take it apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padgett Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 Ayyy. EGR is supposed to open at cruise, not at idle. All that says is when overriden it works. I'd think about pulling the O2 sensor and measuring the backpressure. Clogged cat will show up real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, Padgett said: Ayyy. EGR is supposed to open at cruise, not at idle. All that says is when overriden it works. I'd think about pulling the O2 sensor and measuring the backpressure. Clogged cat will show up real fast. Any ideas on why Dave's engine would react differently to mine when opening and closing the EGR valves with overrides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 Went over to Bob's and we cut the exhaust pipe just behind the cat. The mesh was fine and everything looked good. I had checked the PO's purchases and saw that he had bought a cat at 110,000 miles. The car now has 205,000 and the exhaust was good coming out the tailpipes. We went for lunch and I drove the Reatta. After a couple of attempts it did do the bucking and Bob thought it was ignition and not a clogged exhaust. He recommended I should swap out the spark plugs [40,000 miles old] ot the TPS [Throttle Position Sensor]. I'm doing both. The plugs I have, the sensor I need to order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padgett Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 Can check the TPS (throttle position sensor) on the car. At idle should be .38-.42v. At WOT "over 4v". Should see a linear move between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 Have you moved away from the idea that it might be the EGR system causing the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 24, 2021 Share Posted December 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Ronnie said: Have you moved away from the idea that it might be the EGR system causing the problem? All the EGRs have come out of working/running Reattas that I have parted out personally. So yes I am moving on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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