Saving Reattas from the crusher is a family project.

[2seater]

Somewhat strange results to report. My son removed the entire harness except we cannot decipher how to disconnect the plug at the firewall but that may turn out to be not necessary. The odd thing about this harness is the apparent great shape it is in, at least from an overall outer appearance. I usually find the outer loom is stiff, crusty and crumbly, especially in the high heat areas, but this one isn't like that. We did uncover the portions related to the cam and crank sensor as well as the ICM plug. It all looked good and continuity checks from the ICM to the two sensors proved to be good with no crossing or shorting between wires. Since the harness is free to be pulled over to the passengers side door, the next thing will be to check all various sensors plugs to the plugs at the ECM. He is going to pull the crank sensor again on the slim chance that it was damaged despite our best efforts to get the clearances correct. The other possibility may be the ECM is bad, and luckily, we have a spare from an 88 with a reman sticker. The head scratching continues. 

[Ronnie]

21 minutes ago, 2seater said:

He is going to pull the crank sensor again on the slim chance that it was damaged despite our best efforts to get the clearances correct. The other possibility may be the ECM is bad...

If the CPS tests show voltages are good, and the 3x and 18X signals are present, shouldn't the engine at least have spark even if the ECM is bad? I was thinking the ECM takes over spark control after the engine reaches a few hundred RPM. Don't remember the exact number. I'm asking about this for future reference when troubleshooting. 

[2seater]

11 hours ago, Ronnie said:

If the CPS tests show voltages are good, and the 3x and 18X signals are present, shouldn't the engine at least have spark even if the ECM is bad? I was thinking the ECM takes over spark control after the engine reaches a few hundred RPM. Don't remember the exact number. I'm asking about this for future reference when troubleshooting. 

That is my understanding as well? We swapped coil/ICM's as well so we are missing something here. The continuity test to the ECM is pretty much for peace of mind as long as all the work to free the harness has been done. 

[2seater]

Long story but the conclusion is it runs again.

 

We did check continuity of the wiring between the ECM and the ICM, which was perfect. My son purchased one each Delphi and Delco CPS and one came with a new bracket plus a new balancer. We found the new bracket let the sensor twist in the fingers of the bracket even when tightened so it wouldn't move in and out. Something strange there. It appeared to have a poor fit to the guides slots in the sides of the sensor. We used one of the original brackets with the new sensor and that proved to be fine. One other item we both noticed, and which is common to all four sensors we have in hand, is that the ribs of vanes on the sensor are not straight and square. They do have a curve to match the circular shape of the shutter wheel, which makes sense, but this is the ribs are tilted toward the front of the car when installed. In other words, the shutter wheel fits in the slots on a diagonal. Most curious. 

 

The balancer, from Rock Auto arrived with the shutter wheel bent due to poor packaging and has been sent back. I brought a NOS balancer I believe I acquired from Dave, and that is what we installed even though the original appeared okay except for a couple of minor issues with the 18x ring which we could have straightened. After hours reinstalling the wiring harness we tried starting with the original ICM and coil pack, which proved to have no spark, so switched to the known good parts removed from my car and it fired right up. We had tried my ICM before so it appears multiple things are going on here. The 041 cam sensor code also disappeared after installing a new sensor as well. 

 

One other item which may or may not be related is the CRT doesn't enter diagnostics as it should. Pressing off and warmer doesn't react as it used to and appears to do nothing. Pressing the lower right hard button ,(I wasn't operating it),  and ECM Data ? pops up and it works normally. Essentially the diagnostic seems to work normally once accessed but accessing it doesn't follow the normal pattern. That is something to be investigated later but I don't know what to make of it?

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, 2seater said:

We did check continuity of the wiring between the ECM and the ICM,

It seems like when you do something to the ICM is makes a difference. Could there be something about the plug that goes into the ICM causing a bad connection? Maybe a pin not making good contact with the ICMs? It's odd that switching back and forth between known good ICMs makes a difference.

 

What brand of CPS did you end up using? I like both ACDelco and Delphi but my buddy with engine shop keeps telling me to start using Delphi. It didn't matter anyway because Amazon didn't have an ACDelco when I was ordering a new CPS. He said he thinks Delphi is better now... especially the fuel pumps.

 

Did you run into the same thing I told you about (in my stranded post) with the brackets? I found that my old bracket with the new Delphi didn't allow me to get it tight enough to hold it in place, and me still be able to move it enough to adjust it easily. Sorta like you said. It would either twist around in the bracket and feel too loose, or it didn't want to slide as it should. It was almost like there was something different about the serrations that was causing it but I didn't really take much time to investigate it.  The Delphi seemed to fit and tighten up the way it should in the new bracket that came with it.

 

I don't know what could be going on with the CRT. That's weird that way it's operating.

[2seater]

We used the Delphi sensor but we used an old bracket. It did require a bit of stretching it open to get the sensor inserted. That said, it was an old bracket but it may have not been the one that was on the car as we had a selection of used parts. The sensor did not want to insert into one of the old brackets, so I must conclude that results are mixed. I will put the Delco sensor in the parts drawer.

 

We have looked over the ICM plug very thoroughly and did our continuity checks directly from that plug to the plugs at the ECM. By the way, the pinouts for the 1989 ECM contained in the ROJ help section was very valuable. Using the phone as a hotspot and view the data on an iPad works great.

 

The weirdness of the CRT is a brand new issue and something I have zero knowledge of. 

[DAVES89]

Glad you got the car running, but have no knowledge of why it doesn't work. Maybe swap the one from the Black to try?

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, 2seater said:

We have looked over the ICM plug very thoroughly and did our continuity checks directly from that plug to the plugs at the ECM.

I guess you have done the continuity checks between the CPS and the ICM? If the no start condition pops up again with no spark, check to see if the injectors are firing. That would tell you if the ECM is getting a CPS signal from the ICM.

[2seater]

53 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I guess you have done the continuity checks between the CPS and the ICM? If the no start condition pops up again with no spark, check to see if the injectors are firing. That would tell you if the ECM is getting a CPS signal from the ICM.

Yes, we had previously checked the cam and crank sensor wiring to the ICM. All of the wiring appears in remarkably good shape, including the loom covering the harnesses. 10-4 on the injector signal, I will pass that on.

[2seater]

3 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

Glad you got the car running, but have no knowledge of why it doesn't work. Maybe swap the one from the Black to try?

We have spares of the CRT and the silver boxes so we should be good with parts to swap. What is so concerning is the simultaneous nature of doing work in one area and have something loosely related act up. Since all of the dash and instrument panel was completely disassembled and a mix of original plus replacement parts being installed, who knows if something is amiss there? 

[DAVES89]

There's that [taking everything apart] but he has run it for a long time so I wouldn't worry about the wiring. Try two things; disconnect/reconnect the battery and disconnect/reconnect the CRT controller.   

[2seater]

Well, a week on and the car starts and runs perfectly. Oddly, the glitch with diagnostic mode for the CRT has disappeared and it also works as it should. The cam sensor code that appeared while we were trying to resolve the no start problem is gone as well. My son installed a new sensor after we noticed rub marks on the original sensor. It received a new magnet when I did the timing chain. We smeared grease on the new sensor and rolled the engine over twice to be sure there was clearance between magnet and sensor, which there was. The assumption is the mark was from the previous magnet failure.

The last item that has cured itself is an ABS code we found last year. I forget which wheel but it was for one of the front wheels and it is now indicating it is good to go. Hopefully now ready for summer duty. The a/c works as well as the cruise control so all systems go and no warning lights👍
 

This is a photo of the crank sensors. Trying to illustrate the tilted nature of ribs of the sensor which all appear to tilt slightly toward the connection end. The one on the left is the brand new Delco, the one in background on the right is a Standard Motor product and the near on the right is what was on the car(failed?), brand unknown. All exhibit the tilt and frankly they appear pretty much identical. The photo doesn’t pick up the tilt very well.

[DAVES89]

I see the tilt. Glad everything got resolved.

[Ronnie]

Glad to hear everything is starting to work as it should. 

 

2 hours ago, 2seater said:

This is a photo of the crank sensors. Trying to illustrate the tilted nature of ribs of the sensor which all appear to tilt slightly toward the connection end. The one on the left is the brand new Delco, the one in background on the right is a Standard Motor product and the near on the right is what was on the car(failed?), brand unknown. All exhibit the tilt and frankly they appear pretty much identical.

When I enlarge your photos, it appears the center rib is wider than the outside ones. Is that the case? When I look at the photo I took of my new Delphi sensor it appears all the ribs are the same width. I can definitely see a curve in the ribs but I can't tell if they tilt or not in my photo.

 

I just held my old sensor in my hand and the ribs appear to tilt on it so I guess they all do.

 

[2seater]

The car continues to run well. That's the good news but the other side of the coin is the right side torque strut rod snapped off. Luckily it was slowing down coming into the local community, there was a clunk and the handling went away.  I guess we should have investigated them when we did the cradle mounts. Needless to say, this is disappointing, but it didn't happen at high speed, which is good. 

[Ronnie]

Glad you are safe. That could have been bad. I hope no damage was done to  your car. I'm assuming it was rusty under the rubber shown in the photo where it wouldn't be noticed?

 

I remember someone else having that problem several years ago. I saved a photo of it but I can't find it right now. I'm going to look mine over good the next time I'm under my car.
 

[DAVES89]

Glad you are not hurt. Like Ronnie says that could have been bad. 

 Maybe a Gibson's run? The Reatta that kdirk and I stripped was a low mileage car. That rod should be good.

I need some parts myself. 

 The guy who posted the pictures was Manikmechanik.

[2seater]

This is one of those things that will crop up on cars with rust issues. If the car is otherwise clean, I doubt there is any issue. Essentially a winter and or year around driver in the rust belt will need fuel and brake lines in the rear and cradle, sway bar and reaction rod service or replacement. Just a fact of life😕

[2seater]

I ordered and received two replacement arms from Jim Finn, actually #2 son received the parts. We got together today and did the replacement of the right side, which was the broken one. As this was apart and the ball joint was a bit sketchy looking, it got a brand new ball joint as well. And of course, while the brake caliper was off and out of the way, the brake pads were getting down in service life so the stock of closeout Rock auto brake parts got tapped as well🙄. In all fairness, I had previously offered brake pads to both boys as I had three complete sets, so this was just a convenient time.

 

The car is now mobile so it will come over to the cottage to do the other side while on a lift. Not that that helps directly but sure seems easier at eye level😎

[2seater]

The car got the second control arm done yesterday as well as the brake pads. All went well this time and the car drives very well. The photo is of the two brake reaction rods as they are called. The passengers side is the one that snapped. The drivers side is well worn as well to about 50% of diameter. It appears it isn’t only rust that is the issue but a certain amount is from simple friction with the rubber bushings. I am pretty sure rust really speeds up that process. This is at approximately 175k miles on a northern car, no doubt winter driven.

On a sad note very loosely related is my sons hoopty 325k mile 03 Honda Civic hybrid is likely going to the junkyard. We worked on both the Buick and Honda yesterday and the attempted replacement of upper rear control arms on the Honda had all the captive nuts shear off inside the “frame”. Something’s are better left to rattle a bit 😕 No good way to repair so it will probably get the battery module removed and the rest scrapped. Typical of old Hondas and Toyotas where the drivetrain just keeps ticking while the car falls apart and disappears around it.