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What did you do with your Reatta today.


DAVES89
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11 hours ago, 2seater said:

I am reposting these from the other site and many years ago. This is the best I could find to illustrate the different chain damper styles and my experience with them. The totally worn out new style damper was run approx. 38k miles on a new Cloyes brand chain. The other pic is of the old style damper with 92k miles on it from a different engine but installed in place of the new style just for illustration. The old style damper was from my original engine which also used a Morse brand chain which has a smoother top surface. As can be seen, there is significant wear on the old damper but is no where near worn out with far more than double the miles. Three observations of the two different dampers: one, not scientific but a spring loaded center punch indicated the new style damper is softer material than the original, two, the new style is not a solid piece but is relieved underneath for lord knows what reason which is made worse since the chain just rides on a single point until it has worn in to conform to the amount of chain deflection but by then it cuts all the way through and accelerates the wear. The new design looks like it should lay smoothly against the chain for a large contact patch but it does not.

Great information.  Thanks for posting I thought there was a difference in some of the tensioners as to the way the boss on the bottom goes into the block and the block itself.  Maybe I'm thinking of another car. Could you enlighten us on any differences there might be in the way the tensioner bolts to the block?

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2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Great information.  Thanks for posting I thought there was a difference in some of the tensioners as to the way the boss on the bottom goes into the block and the block itself.  Maybe I'm thinking of another car. Could you enlighten us on any differences there might be in the way the tensioner bolts to the block?

No, you remember correctly but all of the engines I have had apart appear to use the same one? I have the '88 block on the stand ready for assembly and that might be the one that is different but nothing jumped out at me on a cursory look.

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It may not be a problem but since RockAuto lists two designs for an '89 it would be a wise to check closely when bolting up the replacement. I wonder why they have "Right" in the listing?

 

1989 REATTA 3 8L Timing Damper RockAuto.png

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I do not know what that wording means either. Perhaps I have just been lucky. I just took a quick pic of the 88 block face and I found one of the 89 also to post together. Unfortunately they are not high resolution to be able to get absolute detail. The hole for the tensioner is lower left. Edit: there does seem to be a slight hint there is a chamfer on the 89 block but maybe a trick of the light? As mentioned before, I do intend to pull the front cover on the 89 at some point but it won't be soon.

970736636_88blockfrontface.thumb.jpg.0c5343629d79d63f38410b89e5a7f387.jpg1350216148_89blockfrontface.thumb.jpg.56c80bf6cef229cd7963e58ba43e7f93.jpg

Edited by 2seater
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I may be making too much out of this damper thing. It's just the obsessive compulsive coming out in me. ?  I'm always curious about things I don't understand.

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That order I just placed was for two each 1988 dampers. I do have one "new" style on the shelf so should be good. I will let everyone know what comes so we can either clear this up or continue to swim in muddy water...

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37 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

That order I just placed was for two each 1988 dampers. I do have one "new" style on the shelf so should be good. I will let everyone know what comes so we can either clear this up or continue to swim in muddy water...

I have never known you to be unprepared ?  This is almost one of those things to purchase after you have a sample in hand. In the dim recesses I think what I have always used is the one for the chamfered hole. Maybe my build records will shed some light.

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I don't think I am OCD but I do like to investigate to a conclusion if possible. Long story short, while doing some rearranging in preparation for painting and flooring in an upstairs bedroom, I happened across an ancient digital camera and the case which contained a memory chip for a newer Sony camera I still occasionally use. Sorting through the contents I found several images of my second rebuild of the '89 engine, the same one as above but going back together after machine work. The photos included give a little better view of the hole for the damper, and it clearly has a small chamfer. The other image is of the same area with the new Morse chain and an old style damper I got from an outfit called the Buick Farm. The damper has the old style shape but I am pretty certain it was softer material. If you look closely, it is possible to see the chain has a smoother back surface and no chain saw effect. With the better view of the chamfer, I looked at the '88 block again and it also has a small chamfer, perhaps .025" wide, so it doesn't jump out at a glance. I have no idea what a counterbored one is as I have not run across one.DSC01133.thumb.JPG.7722f61ac0874ababe9a54ec169bd4c6.JPGDSC01135.thumb.JPG.e2726d9aee20b9693fd010b6a5fdff7a.JPG

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2seater, You might find this interesting reading on this subject.  We discussed the chamfered vs the counterbored damper in that thread but I don't really see that we came up with a definitive answer about the differences there either.

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2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

2seater, You might find this interesting reading on this subject.  We discussed the chamfered vs the counterbored damper in that thread but I don't really see that we came up with a definitive answer about the differences there either.

Funny thing is I went through that thread a couple days ago looking for photos and I concur, it doesn't seem to have any resolution. I know I measure very carefully when I am assembling and actually space the bolt and whole damper assembly outwards as much as practical to better center the damper on the chain but not a lot can be done. The whole design goes back decades before there was a 3800 and the addition of a balance shaft. Back then the chain was wider and was probably fairly well centered but the addition of the balance shaft and the necessary drive system caused the chain to become narrower, with less surface area and greater psi against the damper. So now it is biased to the one side of the damper. If the new style was made with a harder plastic, like Nylatron, and was solid and not relieved underneath, it might have a better chance to wear in and conform. I do seem to remember the legs on the tension spring varied in length.

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Things are getting crazy around my house with items for me for Christmas. I go to Amazon to look up parts and when I find them I just put them in the shopping cart. So I look up the Edlebrock Timing kit and put it in the shopping cart while I ask you guys if that is something that would work. We decide stock is best, I find what I want/need in Ohio and order it. I go back to Amazon to cancel it, not there so I thought with all the stuff I had been doing I maybe canceled it without remembering. As it continued to bother me, I went and looked at "orders" and there it was...

 I think I need a radiator...

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7 hours ago, 2seater said:

The whole design goes back decades before there was a 3800 and the addition of a balance shaft. Back then the chain was wider and was probably fairly well centered but the addition of the balance shaft and the necessary drive system caused the chain to become narrower, with less surface area and greater psi against the damper. So now it is biased to the one side of the damper.

I had never given the much thought to how the balance shaft is driven.  Is there a separate gear that goes behind the cam sprocket or does the sprocket have a gear made on it to drive the balance shaft?

 

I was hoping we could figure out this quandary about the differences in the way the dampers mount and the overall best combination of dampers and chains.  If we could I was going to split the posts in this thread about it into a thread of it's own or make a tutorial if needed.  Maybe Dave will be able to shed some light on it when he gets all his parts and can compare them...

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3 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

I go back to Amazon to cancel it, not there so I thought with all the stuff I had been doing I maybe canceled it without remembering. As it continued to bother me, I went and looked at "orders" and there it was...

Santa has been good to you this year.  Don't worry about getting the timing set you don't intend to use.  I think Santa accepts returns. ?

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47 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I had never given the much thought to how the balance shaft is driven.  Is there a separate gear that goes behind the cam sprocket or does the sprocket have a gear made on it to drive the balance shaft?

This time I did have a photo at hand and your conjecture is correct. The photo shows the gear in place which engages the gear on the balance shaft. Since it appears as a modification of an existing system it is interesting to see the cam runs at half engine speed but they had to speed the balance shaft back to full speed to make it work, so first it is geared down and then back up. Probably not the most efficient idea mechanically.DSC01134.thumb.JPG.8437af7f79c53e777b991d11665031a4.JPG

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Thanks for the explanation.  Probably inefficient but I like the simplicity of it.  Some modern engines have chains crisscrossing the whole front of the engine that are a nightmare to get in time.

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Well the '89 Black really is trying my patience as now the radiator is leaking [and bad]. So my plan is tomorrow afternoon to remove the radiator from the ''88 Black [my future winter car] and install it in the '89 Black. Then install the new one that I ordered yesterday in the '88 Black. It is going to be bitter cold in the garage as I have minimal heat in a non insulated garage. But as everything is accessed from the top it shouldn't go too bad. The new radiator is due in Saturday [or Monday] but I will need the car. 

 I know you guys are thinking that I should just start driving the '88 Black but I can't as I don't have plates or insurance on it and I also want to undercoat it so that the fuel.brake lines are protected.

 that will happen this spring.

 Bought the radiator for $76.00 delivered through Amazon.

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You are having bad luck with the car but your luck was good buying the radiator. They were $113 on Amazon when I had the Reatta Store open.

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The radiator actually isn't from Amazon, it's through a seller there. At any rate the coldest day so far this winter [8 degrees] I'm out in the garage with my gas grill as my heat source. Wasn't too bad.

 The '88 Black radiator is now in the '89 Black and everything is dry. I used the antifreeze from both cars [after straining it] in the '89 Black. The '88 will get new antifreeze. The new radiator should be here by Friday or Saturday and the weather promises to be much warmer [as high as 40].

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52 minutes ago, DAVES89 said:

The radiator actually isn't from Amazon, it's through a seller there. At any rate the coldest day so far this winter [8 degrees] I'm out in the garage with my gas grill as my heat source. Wasn't too bad.

 The '88 Black radiator is now in the '89 Black and everything is dry. I used the antifreeze from both cars [after straining it] in the '89 Black. The '88 will get new antifreeze. The new radiator should be here by Friday or Saturday and the weather promises to be much warmer [as high as 40].

I think Santa needs to bring you a heated stall in the garage for being such a charming and hard working boy?

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Now there's an idea, but then I might not be able to get three vehicles in my garage...

 I try to plan out my repairs so I'm ready for winter, but this car has taken me out behind the barn to try to give me a beating. In the last month it was a passenger side front brake line, catalytic converter ream with a new muffler, Oxygen Sensor, and now a radiator. A front wheel speed sensor going bad and a very slow leak in the rack and pinion. I also did front tie rods and one ball joint back in April. Too cheap for a front end alignment so I "learned" how to do one on you tube. So far no unusual wear on the tires and it tracks good so I think I'm good on that. 

 However as my labor is free and as I strip the car I will get back some parts [Radiator and muffler/tail pipe]. Not counting all the parts I take off when I strip a car down. 

Edited by DAVES89
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