Reatta, outdated and possibly dangerous Teves ABS.

[ski.dive]

Everybody that owns a Reatta, has or will have TEVES system problems

 

The Reatta TEVES system it is getting to be quite old, with time, it could produce multiple brake failures that can be very dangerous

 

I wish I could find a local mechanic that knows how to change over my Reatta to standard power brakes :S

[retired mechanic74]

Everybody that owns a Reatta, has or will have TEVES system problems

 

The Reatta TEVES system it is getting to be quite old, with multiple brake failures than can be very dangerous

 

I'm so tired of my Teves system!!!

 

I wish I could find a local mechanic that knows how to change over my Reatta to standard power brakes :S

 

I gave instructions as best I could in a prior post If your mechanically inclined you should be able to re-produce the operation. Due to all the years in mechanics (50 yrs) I ruined my body because I thought I was invincible and now can hardly work on my own car let alone someone else's. But if you take on the project I am willing to answer (to the best of my abilities) any questions you may have.

[DAVES89]

Everybody that owns a Reatta, has or will have TEVES system problems

 

The Reatta TEVES system it is getting to be quite old, with multiple brake failures than can be very dangerous

 

I'm so tired of my Teves system!!!

 

I wish I could find a local mechanic that knows how to change over my Reatta to standard power brakes :S

 

Sounds more like a case of "Buyers Remorse". So when does your car go up for sale? Then you find out the other bitter irony about a Reatta. That they are an easy car to buy and a hard car to sell.

 One last thing if you decide not to go, take some time to learn about the brake system and you will find that the two most important things are to be sure your brake fluid is clean and fresh and that when you have a brake issue it is most likely the accumulator ball.

 In my opinion much more expensive to swap the system out then it is to maintain what you have.

[retired mechanic74]

 

Sounds more like a case of "Buyers Remorse". So when does your car go up for sale? Then you find out the other bitter irony about a Reatta. That they are an easy car to buy and a hard car to sell.

 One last thing if you decide not to go, take some time to learn about the brake system and you will find that the two most important things are to be sure your brake fluid is clean and fresh and that when you have a brake issue it is most likely the accumulator ball.

 In my opinion much more expensive to swap the system out then it is to maintain what you have.

 

DAVE89 I could agree with you if, the person could not do it themselves, but having a mechanic diagnose and repair the Teves system can and most often be very costly because most mechanics today are nothing more then R and R men they don't know the system well enough to go beyond the accumulator. It might be a huge undertaking to swap out the Teves but if you want good reliable minimal problem brakes then that's the way to go because it is a one time investment and cheap in replacement parts. Just my thoughts on the subject.

[DAVES89]

I own 3 drivable Reattas [the 4th one is pewter and sits on my desk] and I can tell you after 10 years of ownership with over 250,000 miles [combined mostly on the Red and Black, the 'vert I have put 8000 miles on] that the Red finally caused me to swap out the pump/motor. I still am using the accumulator and pressure switch that came with the car when I bought it.

As I put on between 15-20,000 miles a year each on both the Red and Black I flush the brake fluid when I do a brake job which is every 3-4 years.

The Red now has 270,000 miles on it  [160,000 by me] and the Black has 280,000 [90,000 by me]. That sounds like a pretty dependable brake system to me.

Here is an opinion based on what I have seen over the years. There have been a lot of buyers of "cheap" Reattas that have "issues" and when they find out how expensive repairs can be or a system they don't understand they start slamming the car. All it takes is a little patience to learn what they need to know or spend some of the money they "saved" buying a Reatta cheap and they will find that these are really great cars.

Financially I am way upside down on the Red as I have been fighting a losing battle trying to keep it as nice as I can. But as I sell parts and use the cars for business miles I am still not that bad off investment wise. The Black and 'vert not so much as I have come to realize there is nothing wrong with driving a car with a few flaws to it.

Just one man's opinion, now back to anyone else's rant on how bad these cars are.

[2seater]

I just complimented Dave yesterday on the number of miles he puts on, in all conditions, so I take his opinion on reliability as good as it gets. I do admit I would prefer a more mainstream type brake system, but, in the almost quarter century I have owned my '90, it has only had one accumulator change for the total extent of problems. I do flush the system every few years, which is a good idea on all Dot 3 brake systems, so it does get maintained. There are a lot of GM and different automotive brands that used the Teves II system, and most were high end makes. That in itself doesn't make it great, but I don't think it is a deathtrap, as long as it is maintained and you pay attention to what it is telling you. Again, just my opinion.

[retired mechanic74]

I own 3 drivable Reattas [the 4th one is pewter and sits on my desk] and I can tell you after 10 years of ownership with over 250,000 miles [combined mostly on the Red and Black, the 'vert I have put 8000 miles on] that the Red finally caused me to swap out the pump/motor. I still am using the accumulator and pressure switch that came with the car when I bought it.

As I put on between 15-20,000 miles a year on both the Red and Black I flush the brake fluid when I do a brake job which is every 3-4 years.

The Red now has 270,000 miles on it  [160,000 by me] and the Black has 280,000 [90,000 by me]. That sounds like a pretty dependable brake system to me.

Here is an opinion based on what I have seen over the years. There have been a lot of buyers of "cheap" Reattas that have "issues" and when they find out how expensive repairs can be or a system they don't understand they start slamming the car. All it takes is a little patience to learn what they need to know or spend some of the money they "saved" buying a Reatta cheap and they will find that these are really great cars.

Financially I am way upside down on the Red as I have been fighting a losing battle trying to keep it as nice as I can. But as I sell parts and use the cars for business miles I am still not that bad off investment wise. The Black and 'vert not so much as I have come to realize there is nothing wrong with driving a car with a few flaws to it.

Just one man's opinion, now back to anyone else's rant on how bad these cars are.

I don't believe anyone is bashing the car, I willed my car to my daughter in case of my passing but I want her to have a trouble free car. I note that you have had your cars for a long time and the experiences  that you have had with them and believe me I'm not knocking that. They have treated you fairly, but my experiences are quite different. I was a GM Dealership mechanic from 1967 to 1993 and then went to Chrysler's for 13 years. During my stent with GM I got to work on the Teves system alot and all of the systems I had to work on where owned by a variety of costumers who treated their cars differently. Some road the brake pedal while others relied on panic stops. My point is, when someone such as yourself respects and maintains their cars in the manor that you do the cars are going to hold up so much better. But I have to honestly say that the stock pile of parts you have says that you expect a variety of problems sometime down the road and all I'm saying is...why continue to keep putting confidence in used parts when you can swap it out with parts known for their dependability? Please I hope you don't take my response in a negative way because that's not what I intended. If I were to find that I have offended someone on this forum I would stop responding all together.

[ski.dive]

Sounds more like a case of "Buyers Remorse". So when does your car go up for sale?

 

Dave,

 

What I'm saying is: I would prefer a normal type of brake system on my Reatta.

 

***Brakes where I do not have to hunt down accumulator balls or pumps in order to keep my car running.

 

I have no buyers remorse, I love my Reatta, its great car. :)

 

My Teves is working fine :)

 

I just wish it had a =Less Complicated brake system that I could take to any shop and have it worked on.

[DAVES89]

First off I am not taking offense to anyone. I have been on the forum "over there" and unlike some guys there I enjoy spirited conversation. Having said that after 10 years on these forums I have seen guys come and go, the ones who leave fastest are the ones that bought a Reatta "cheap" because of brake issues and then left because they didn't want to spend some of the low purchase price on repairs. I once sent an entire Teves unit for less then my cost to a guy because he kept b******g about his brake system and how he had no money to fix it but was still driving the car putting other people at risk [i didn't care much if he did himself harm as he should know better]. He fixed it and still sold his Reatta and then left the forum. Ronnie and I actually talked about him when we met up in Nashville.

Here is the rationale behind why the Teves unit was used, in particular high end cars. It was thought that the industry was going to deisel cars which from what I understand have little or no vacuum. [if you look carefully on the 1988/89 IPC you will see "Diesel Fuel Only". The Teves system uses no vacuum.

I still hold that the Teves system is not that hard to keep in good operation, especially since you guys have found these forums and know there are guys with experience to help with advice and sources for parts.

The reason I keep so many parts on hand is because I have 3 Reattas and use one or the other every day. I do not want or like having "down time" as I enjoy driving these cars. All my used parts are tested as when purchased and the part I removed goes on the shelf so I know whatever part I grab works.

[DAVES89]

 

Dave,

 

What I'm saying is: I would prefer a normal type of brake system on my Reatta.

 

***Brakes where I do not have to hunt down accumulator balls or pumps in order to keep my car running.

 

I have no buyers remorse, I love my Reatta, its great car. :)

 

My Teves is working fine :)

 

I just wish it had a =Less Complicated brake system that I could take to any shop and have it worked on.

 

 Once again I want you to know I am not taking offense about anyone questioning my defense of this brake system. You have to remember that the last year this car was made was made in 1991 and all parts are hard to get. Less then two weeks ago I needed flexible brake lines and no one had them in stock. I remembered that 1996-2002 Cadillac Eldorado brake line are 1/4" longer and will work and were in stock. Other parts not staocked are calipers, motor mounts, power steering pump pressure hose, I could go on but you get the idea. You will have to wait for parts to come in. 

 If you do swap out the Teves unit be prepared for the anti lock brake system to not work. Some people say that is fine, but while I have changed much in regards to appearance on my Reattas I still have all original working systems. I live under the opinion that the next guy who gets my car which is not likely at least they will have a base line in which to work from.

 These cars are yours, you can certainly do what you want. Good luck in the direction you want to go.

[fordrodsteven]

I don't usually but I'm going to jump in here. I've been working on cars and motorcycles for over 50 years and still enjoy it very much. I agree with Dave that anyone who has mechanical ability and a little understanding of electrical systems can own and enjoy a Reatta. There is nothing dangerous about the car unless the owner lets it get that way. I changed the accumulator on mine a few years ago. It didn't need it but I was flushing the system as recommended by many and decided to change it out while I was there. Sort of preventative maintenance. Two years later had one brake caliper that was acting up (sticking) so I went ahead and changed all four and flushed the system. Not a big deal and not super expensive. I find the Reatta to be as dependable if not moreso than any other 25 - 30 year old car I've owned.

I agree that it can be frustrating to someone who does not have the patience to go through the troubleshooting steps (electrical and mechanical) but the shop manual walks you right through the process and hasn't failed me yet in solving the problem. I come to the web site to bounce it off of other owners because very often someone has already dealt with my issue and can offer some insight. If you are paying a mechanic in a shop to work on it, it can get VERY expensive and often will yield unsatisfactory results. I could go on with some examples but I'll stop here because this is getting to be a long post from me. If you have the ability and tools to work on your Reatta you should.

[Ronnie]

Here's my 2 cents on this...

 

The key to keeping the Teves brake system working is arming yourself with knowledge. That is true for a lot of other systems on the Reatta as well. I have been working on this website for about 8 years to make a lot of the knowledge you need easy to find. Get familiar with the Teves system by reading the tutorials on this website and read the service manual if you have one. Once you do that you won't fear driving a Reatta because of the Teves and you won't dread working on the brakes. There is lot of misinformation that circulates around about the Teves system that gives it a bad name. Most of it is based on speculation and not of facts.

 

EDIT: I deleted my previous post. It was way too long. :)

[89 MAUI]

It is more dangerous to ride a bicycle, in many states it is a requirement to wear headgear.  If you feel the uneasiness to drive the Teves brakes then find a mechanic that is willing to do preventative maintenance to maintain top braking from the Teves.

 

Woody

[Aztec62]

Everybody that owns a Reatta, has or will have TEVES system problems

 

The Reatta TEVES system it is getting to be quite old, with time, it could produce multiple brake failures that can be very dangerous

 

I wish I could find a local mechanic that knows how to change over my Reatta to standard power brakes :S

 

Hello ski.dive,

since the Teves ABS system is a development from a german company ( I am German), I want to add my two cents, too.

I have talked to a number of car mechanics over here who were in business in the 1990, when the Teves system was state of the art.

Nobody remembers to have any troublle with it at that time.

It is a rather sophisticated system and now that it is old and outdated, it becomes difficult to maintain.

This is something I am enduring right now with my own 1990 Reatta.

I can understand why you want to "bail out" and move to a conventional brake system without the anti-lock feature.

Those systems are simple and require almost no service at all.

But then you would not have anti-lock brakes. Do you really want that?

Besides, it would be really difficult to do that. I only sounds easy.

What might be possible is to remove the Mk.2 system and install the Mk.4 system from a 1991 GM (Reatta, Park Avenue etc.)

This system has the vacuum brake booster as usual and it is a four channel ABS, not just 3 as on the Mk.2.

It would be an awful lot of work (new brake pipes, new ABS control module etc.), but I think it would be possible.