No spark from ICM, dang car just won't start!!!

[retiredarnold1]

The problem:  Car will not start.  Have replaced the fuel pump relay, ICM, Coils, ECM.  Sanded the negative wire connectors to insure good grounding. Removed the CPS and visually inspected the transistors for possible short damage.  Used the green connector and 12 volt battery to listen for  fuel pump.  Visually inspected the cam shaft magnet and it appeared ok (did the Padgett cam magnet procedure in 2018) Replaced the idle air controller.  These were not done in one day but are things I have tried over the last month to get her to start and run. I did unplug and plug back in the connectors to the BCM.

Codes noted:  EO22C and H, EO42H, b440H, b448c, b552h, b663H, b663H, r034h. I did get the EO41c once but I forgot to plugged in the connection after looking at the cam magnet situation. It went away after plugging it in.

Today’s Codes:  EO22c and H, no B codes, and rO34H.

Results:  As of now I am not getting any spark to coils.  The fuel pump will not run in ACC mode but will with green connector and 12v supplied. I can smell gas fumes under the hood.  I’ve tried using the old ECM and new ECM switching back and forth with no difference.  The trunk and gas tank buttons are not working now. I’ve switched back and forth the old and new coils with no change in results.  Have cleaned the contacts from the ICM meltdown. Have ordered a Delphi ICM to see if any difference occurs.

Moments:  At one time the car would start using the green connector and 12v direct supply but when I removed the 12 volts the car would shut right down.

This car was purchased by my mother in 1990 and has been in the family since.  It has survived storm damage, hail dents, and deer attacks.  It might not survive my mechanical techniques and knowledge. 

Thanks in advance for all your help. Hauling to a mechanic might be my next move.

[Ronnie]

Welcome to the forum!

 

1 hour ago, retiredarnold1 said:

Results:  As of now I am not getting any spark to coils.  The fuel pump will not run in ACC mode but will with green connector and 12v supplied.

First step is to figure out why there is no spark.

Have you replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor? 

 

Have you attached a gauge to the Schrader valve to check fuel pressure? If so what was the pressure reading?

Smelling gas under the hood doesn't tell us much.

[rogold]

Maybe a fuel pump fuse is blown.

 

[2seater]

If you have a code for the TPS, EO22, what is the actual reading at idle position and does it respond to the throttle pedal? If it smells like fuel, but you do not have spark, it is possible to flood the engine after multiple failed attempts. I do not know if the waste spark system on a modern GM is like the old HEI distributors, but they would not spark if all the plugs were wet and essentially shorted to ground. Maybe pull a plug or two and check for fuel.

 

I didn't understand the comment about the CPS (crankshaft position sensor) and inspecting the transistors?? Something that spellcheck has corrupted maybe? There is a comment about cleaning the connections after the meltdown. Would this be a melted ICM under the coils and where the harness plugs in to it? Without spark, it won't start.

[DAVES89]

I'm betting on the Crank Sensor. I once had and 2seater can verify that on one of my Reattas the Crank Sensor was loose and would slide out of position. Out of position it would not start, but would also backfire to the point that I had a car fire. If the Crank Sensor is defective or out of adjustment you will get no spark. I am not sure, but if it was the Ignition Control module you could possibly have some spark at one or two of the cylinders.

 

Now here is the time I make this comment. It's not directed at just you, but at anyone else who thinks these cars are neat and want to try and keep them roadworthy.

ALWAYS have a good ICM/Coil Pack in your parts bin. Then when something like this happens you can swap in the known good one from your parts bin. If it then does not fire it will most likely be the Crank Sensor. You can get a used ICM/Coil Pack from a junk yard for less then $60.00, far less then a diagnostic charge or the aggravation one goes through. I have two in the Parts bin [with many, many other parts] and I carry one in my car [along with a Crank Sensor, MAF Sensor, Alternator, and Serpentine belt that bypasses the A/C Compressor.

You have to realize these cars are over 30 years old and are no longer supported by GM or the local parts houses. [for example I just bought a Rack and Pinion and front and rear calipers to ensure that my car stays on the road].

 

This is just here in Wisconsin where the Red is. In Texas I am building a similar inventory there to keep the 'vert on the road.

Edited October 6, 2023 by DAVES89

[retiredarnold1]

6 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Welcome to the forum!

 

First step is to figure out why there is no spark.

Have you replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor? 

 

Have you attached a gauge to the Schrader valve to check fuel pressure? If so what was the pressure reading?

Smelling gas under the hood doesn't tell us much.

I have not replaced the crankshaft position sensor and after watching the video I think it might be outside my pay grade.  I think I will wait for new Delphi ICM and try to see if that fixes the spark issue. If it doesn't, I have more money than mechanical skills so I will take the car to my friend's auto repair shop to see if he can fix it.  I would just like to say that I've read a lot on the forum and this site is invaluable to us weekend mechanical warriors at least give us a good attempt to fix the problems.  Thanks to all you responded!!!

[retiredarnold1]

2 hours ago, 2seater said:

If you have a code for the TPS, EO22, what is the actual reading at idle position and does it respond to the throttle pedal? If it smells like fuel, but you do not have spark, it is possible to flood the engine after multiple failed attempts. I do not know if the waste spark system on a modern GM is like the old HEI distributors, but they would not spark if all the plugs were wet and essentially shorted to ground. Maybe pull a plug or two and check for fuel.

 

I didn't understand the comment about the CPS (crankshaft position sensor) and inspecting the transistors?? Something that spellcheck has corrupted maybe? There is a comment about cleaning the connections after the meltdown. Would this be a melted ICM under the coils and where the harness plugs in to it? Without spark, it won't start.

Well what I was trying to say is that I looked at the board on the CPS to see if a short may have happen to make the CPS non-workable.  Transistors was just a word that came into my mind.  Yes the ICM was melted and goo from the ICM had coated the harness plug inside and out after taking the ICM and Coils off and on about 10 times.  I'm really good at that now, just not great at diagnostic steps. 

[retiredarnold1]

1 hour ago, DAVES89 said:

I'm betting on the Crank Sensor. I once had and 2seater can verify that on one of my Reattas the Crank Sensor was loose and would slide out of position. Out of position it would not start, but would also backfire to the point that I had a car fire. If the Crank Sensor is defective or out of adjustment you will get no spark. I am not sure, but if it was the Ignition Control module you could possibly have some spark at one or two of the cylinders.

 

Now here is the time I make this comment. It's not directed at just you, but at anyone else who thinks these cars are neat and want to try and keep them roadworthy.

ALWAYS have a good ICM/Coil Pack in your parts bin. Then when something like this happens you can swap in the known good one from your parts bin. If it then does not fire it will most likely be the Crank Sensor. You can get a used ICM/Coil Pack from a junk yard for less then $60.00, far less then a diagnostic charge or the aggravation one goes through. I have two in the Parts bin [with many, many other parts] and I carry one in my car [along with a Crank Sensor, MAF Sensor, Alternator, and Serpentine belt that bypasses the A/C Compressor.

You have to realize these cars are over 30 years old and are no longer supported by GM or the local parts houses. [for example I just bought a Rack and Pinion and front and rear calipers to ensure that my car stays on the road].

 

This is just here in Wisconsin where the Red is. In Texas I am building a similar inventory there to keep the 'vert on the road.

I am slowly but surely collecting numerous parts.  I have multiple ECM's and Coils but have no idea if they are still functional.  It is getting harder to look under the dash without getting light headed at my age, getting old is not for the weak of heart.  I thought many times about just parting the car out but if was my mom's car and I just can't let it go.  

[Ronnie]

19 minutes ago, retiredarnold1 said:

I would just like to say that I've read a lot on the forum and this site is invaluable to us weekend mechanical warriors at least give us a good attempt to fix the problems.

Thanks. I'm happy that you find ROJ useful.

[retiredarnold1]

Well once again Ronnie was right, after replacing the crank shaft sensor (by myself I proudly add) the car fired right up.  Now I just have to put everything back together again. I also have additional replacement parts now.  Thanks everyone for your assistance!