Air leak at the master

[fun car guy]

Yes, the pump is working.  I replaced the motor and I have good flow from both the rears and the right and the car never pulled in either direction. The fact that when I disconnected the feed for the left front at the master and found it deep into the master instead at the opening might be a sign that the mechanic I hired got sloppy or discouraged, shoved the metal tube into the master and got the valve stuck. He tried to discourage me from even thinking about fixing the car, telling me it would take thousands when there's nothing on it that can't be repaired.  He may not know it yet but he's lost a good customer!

Maybe tapping on the master where the line goes while someone pumps the brakes would be worth a try before I look into a vacuum pump to try to suck the air and hopefully the fluid out if that's your thought, 2 seater.

[DAVES89]

What might be a different idea would be to fix the tube correctly and take the car out and do some "panic" stops on a quiet stretch of road. That might free up the valve block. I don't think tapping on it will do the trick.

Edited November 3, 2021 by DAVES89

[2seater]

Well, I still don't really understand the tube connection fiasco but it costs nothing to try a little tapping on the valve block. I don't know how fragile it is but would use something like the plastic or wood handle of screwdriver, or maybe from a small hammer. Dave's thought of driving it and forcing from the other end is another thing to try, but I would be prepared for a substantial pull to the right when jabbing the brakes. We really need to get fluid to come out of that port. Things designed to move fluid generally do a poor job with a gas. Applying vacuum simply is a more positive way of moving the gas (air).

[Philbo]

On 10/31/2021 at 4:46 PM, fun car guy said:

So my son and I discussed this and decided to disconnect the line from the master and discovered, someone, sometime tightened the fitting leaving several inches of brake tubing up inside so there was no seal!  He then slid the fitting up to the flange as it should have been and threaded it back on tight, no more air leakage!  However, no matter how many times we pump the brakes, nothing comes out and the pedal has no resistance, just goes down to the floor.  Considering that the right one is fine but nothing comes out on the left, is it the equlizing valve or maybe something within the master?

I am very confused. So the line itself was pushed several inches inside the master cylinder? How is that even possible? Isn't there a lip for the flare on the line to sit in that would prevent the line from being pushe into the master cylider?  If you had a picture I would be very interested to see it.

[Philbo]

15 hours ago, DAVES89 said:

What might be a different idea would be to fix the tube correctly and take the car out and do some "panic" stops on a quiet stretch of road. That might free up the valve block. I don't think tapping on it will do the trick.

if you had a dirt road to do said panic stops on, that would be easiest to lock up the wheels and would pull less.

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Philbo said:

if you had a dirt road to do said panic stops on, that would be easiest to lock up the wheels and would pull less.

I agree. The ABS would be more likely to engage and actuate the valves on a gravel road or a slightly wet paved road.

[Philbo]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

I agree. The ABS would be more likely to engage and actuate the valves on a gravel road or a slightly wet paved road.

You could go to a parking lot and soap the tires up and then do a stop maybe too. Might work.

[fun car guy]

Okay, it sounds like some shock therapy in called for.  I'll take some pictures of the master but I don't know what you'll see anything different from yours. It couldn't be a pre-existing problem as I could clearly see the disk was fairly clean of rust and it never pulled either way, they were just very weak, I suspect it may be an air blockage. 

I'm glad to know the ABS block can be replaced though.

Thanks, gentlemen!

[fun car guy]

Okay, put the wheels back on and drove it to my nearby gas station that has a pump for "rek" fuel, (ethanol free) only to discover the nozzle is too big!  There's 1/4 tank in it now and I suppose I could just fill it with regular but would prefer not to.  Anyway, since I live on a gravel access road, I also did several hard stops, and it pulls big time, one time, I did a 180 which was no surprise, left the bleed valve open all the time, checked but not a drop.  I took a few pics but unsure if they will help.  Had fun my first time taking it on the road, the car runs fine, stays cool, oil pressure around 50 psi, alternator doing it's job.  Maybe I'll have to replace the ABS mod. if anyone thinks it will help but that can wait until spring.

[Padgett]

"the nozzle is too big! " yes that is to keep people with catalysts from putting leaded gas in. Back in the day some would remove the catalyst and open up the trap door (old cars did not have) to  the larger diameter.

[Philbo]

49 minutes ago, fun car guy said:

Okay, put the wheels back on and drove it to my nearby gas station that has a pump for "rek" fuel, (ethanol free) only to discover the nozzle is too big!  There's 1/4 tank in it now and I suppose I could just fill it with regular but would prefer not to.  Anyway, since I live on a gravel access road, I also did several hard stops, and it pulls big time, one time, I did a 180 which was no surprise, left the bleed valve open all the time, checked but not a drop.  I took a few pics but unsure if they will help.  Had fun my first time taking it on the road, the car runs fine, stays cool, oil pressure around 50 psi, alternator doing it's job.  Maybe I'll have to replace the ABS mod. if anyone thinks it will help but that can wait until spring.

Do you have a picture of the fitting that you hear leaking air from at the ABS valve block?  The pics you have there appear to be the electrical connectors.

[fun car guy]

The fluid connections are way underneath the master.  I tried to get a better picture but you should be able to see the one that feeds the right front.  Others say theirs are on the side?

[DAVES89]

We need to see the pictures of your lines to be able to help you. We don't have the problem you are experiencing.

[Ronnie]

In this photo it appears there is a line just hanging down with no flare on the end of it or anything. What's the deal on it?

 

[fun car guy]

OOps, that's exactly what it is, taken earlier when I was replacing the calipers and hoses, sorry.  The connections are so far underneath the master and my phone doesn't take very good closeups and there's so much going on down there so taking a better pic is almost impossible.  

[fun car guy]

I've filled  the tank, hooked up a trickle charger and put her to bed for the winter under a cover.  But, I'm sure I won't be able to leave it totally alone until spring, dreaming of getting her back out and making her reveal her few remaining secrets.

[fun car guy]

So I followed the advice of taking it on a gravel road at gradually higher speeds to try and force the fluid to the left side but with no success.  I did however, excelerate to 55, hit the brakes and made the thing spin 180 degrees before it stopped.  It didn't shock the brakes but it sure surprised me!  The brakes are much better on three but that pesky front left simply refuses.  Maybe 2 seater's suggestion of a vacuum to suck air out of the master might help.

[Padgett]

Collapsed hose ?

[DAVES89]

I suggested that in the first page. But thanks for bringing it up again...

[fun car guy]

So 2 seater, exactly what tool are you suggesting I use to unstick the valve in my ABS and how would I use it?