Electric cars.

[jon L]

Total fuel consumption of U.S. airlines is approximately 19 billion gallons annually.
Total fuel consumption for mining Ore for construction of electric car batteries is approximately 21 billion gallons annually.
The 21 billion gallons of fuel burned can only produce enough Ore to build 250,000 electric car batteries.
The lifespan of an electric battery is 10 years and is not renewable. By 2050 these batteries will fill landfills with 50 million pounds of waste that does not break down.
I wonder if people would still believe in electric power cars, vehicles or equipment if they knew how massive the carbon emissions footprint really was?

Now all of the smart people should buy electric cars.

[Ronnie]

Sounds like we should start building more landfills now so we will have enough in 2050.

[Philbo]

Interesting statistics. I am curious where you got them.  Not that I doubt them but curious to learn more.

 

Personally I question the whole battery thing as well as I have heard they are not easily recyclable and will end up in landfills.  Also you have to charge them with power mostly produced by burning fossil fuels as well.  Maybe I'm old school, but I just think internal combustion engines are really cool too.

 

That said, I have thought from time to time that an E-Reatta would be a cool project :)

[BlakesReatta]

I have seen on Youtube a young man who converted a Fiero to electric. Seems like the Reatta would require a little more battery capacity with it being a heavier car.

[Padgett]

Around here a guy is switching golf carts to 48v packs from wrecked EVs. They do wheelies.

[Ronnie]

I like the idea of electric cars. They have a lot of advantages over gas powered cars like no fluids to leak out. Very quiet. Instant torque when you hit the accelerator and they are probably economic to drive if you don't factor in the cost of buying it.

 

What I don't like about them is the purchase price, battery range before recharging, and the emissions coming out the exhaust pipes.

 

Here is what the exhaust pipe looks like. People usually don't consider the exhaust pipes when they talk about electric cars being pollution free:

 

[Philbo]

2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I like the idea of electric cars. They have a lot of advantages over gas powered cars like no fluids to leak out. Very quiet. Instant torque when you hit the accelerator and they are probably economic to drive if you don't factor in the cost of buying it.

 

What I don't like about them is the purchase price, battery range before recharging, and the emissions coming out the exhaust pipes.

 

Here is what the exhaust pipe looks like. People usually don't consider the exhaust pipes when they talk about electric cars being pollution free:

 

The thing is most of what you see in that picture is steam from driving the turbines, not smog. Modern power plants, even fossil fuel plants burn quite cleanly. The technologies to capture all the soot and other polutants has gotten very good and so most of what goes in the atosphere is steam and CO2. Most of what the "issue" is is the CO2 production and how it contributes to the greenhouse effect.  Nuclear doesn't produce the CO2 but still produces a lot of steam (which by the way water vapor has a larger greenhouse effect than the CO2 by a lot, something nobody really discusses). Of course then you have to figure out what to do with the nuclear waste.  

 

I am not against electric cars either, but I am also not against gas and diesel cars.  Modern vehicles burn very cleanly and are quite efficient by my estimation. Especially when you consider the energy that goes into producing the batteries.

[2seater]

My personal intention is to buy a battery electric vehicle at some point. None of my reasons have to due with environmental consciousness, economy or any other of the myriad reasons for doing so, I simply want one🙄 With that in mind, I have shopped on and off for more than a year. I am blind in one eye and outward visibility is important to me, essentially since built in blind spots are more apparent if you close one eye. For the most part, the styling, aero and safety equipment of most modern vehicles have rendered them unacceptable to me. It feels like sitting in a culvert and peering out. But aside from that, the desire to market and sell electric vehicles is almost non existent if you don't live on the coasts. Availability to even sit in one on a car lot is an exercise in frustration. Even the salesman seem to have no interest even when a prospective customer comes to look at what is available, and this is echoed over multiple car lines and dealerships. The most recent one, two weeks ago, had one on the lot based on my internet search. I went to the dealership about 1/2 hour away and inquired about it. The salesman handed me the key and pointed out toward the lot visible to the highway and said, "it's out there, behind that landscaping truck", I kid you not. I am trying to stay away from mentioning particular brands as that isn't the point, but I must for one example, the Kia Soul EV. This car would be acceptable to me based on sitting in standard gas powered models, but despite the original stated intent from the manufacturer, which was to offer if for sale for the 2021 model year, it was pushed back a year and now apparently will not be offered in the U.S. at all. It can be purchased in Canada right now, but apparently the much larger market south of the border doesn't matter. My whole point of this long post is just to state that despite what Washington may want to happen, and even lip service from the manufacturers, the great expected push to eliminate ICE vehicles just isn't visible in a great portion of this country. Imagine great white father offers a $7500 incentive for a particular vehicle and when you look for it, it is only available in a dozen states along both coasts and Colorado🤨, so by the time it might be marketed to me, the incentive may be used up. Where is the balance in that?

[Philbo]

2 hours ago, 2seater said:

I am blind in one eye and outward visibility is important to me, essentially since built in blind spots are more apparent if you close one eye. For the most part, the styling, aero and safety equipment of most modern vehicles have rendered them unacceptable to me. It feels like sitting in a culvert and peering out.

Oh man I'm not blind in one eye and feel that way sometimes lol.  All 3 of my vehicles are from the 90s and whenever I get a rental car I feel like I cannot see. Actually one car that did not make me feel that way was a kia Optima probably the 2019 but cannot remember.

[2seater]

1 hour ago, Philbo said:

Oh man I'm not blind in one eye and feel that way sometimes lol.  All 3 of my vehicles are from the 90s and whenever I get a rental car I feel like I cannot see. Actually one car that did not make me feel that way was a kia Optima probably the 2019 but cannot remember.

Thanks for the confirmation on that. My first glimpse of what was to come when I also had a rental car, a Ford Fusion in this case. This was about fifteen years ago and I was on a sales call for my employer. The location was north of the the twin cities in MN in January, as as luck would have it, a snowstorm blew in. This was a semi rural location for the call and it proved impossible to back up and turn around when it was time to leave because of the poor rearward visibility. Even though it was still daylight and there were rough tracks still visible from outside the car, it was impossible to see them to back up as the view of the ground was more than 150ft behind the car where there was no contrast left to judge where you were. This car would be good by todays standards and of course backup cameras have been mandated by the government for some years. 

[Padgett]

" backup cameras have been mandated by the government " - they have ? What government ?

[2seater]

They were phased in starting in 2016 and full effect in 2018.

 

The backup camera law went into effect on May 2, 2018. The federal regulation requires that all new vehicles are required to have back up cameras and video displays.Jul 18, 2021

 

Have you noticed the lack of daytime running lights, not necessarily the decorative signature lighting, on many modern cars. Required in much of the world and of course our friends to the north, but for some reason, our national highway administration can find no statistical proof it reduces accidents?? Cameras yes, lighting no. Strange IMHO

 

 

 

[Padgett]

I remember Greyhound Bus Line doing a study around 1964ish showing that running with headlights on during the day reduced accidents to busses.

 

ps looks like was in 1959.

 

pps remember around 1964 reading a sci-fi story that concluded with "all of the information known is available, you just have to know what the right question is."

Edited September 10, 2021 by Padgett

[Ron Walker]

An electric vehicle of some sort will be in my future, as well. However, I plan to keep my '10 Camaro SS, '04 SSR, '92 Grand Prix Richard Petty Ed, and of course, my '89 Reatta. That leaves my '13 Avalanche which I'm also pretty fond of. All are ICE and need gasoline!! What will we do when gas gets to be a premium commodity? 

 

If you guys are like me, whenever I'm out and about on the highway, especially in or near any major populated city, the number of cars, SUVs and pickup trucks on the highway border the insane, not to mention all the tractor trailer trucks hauling our goods and commodities. All these eventually taken over by electric?? Seems unrealistic to me, especially as pointed out above about the lack of charging stations in between the coastlines. I can't imagine parking lots big enough for all the EVs waiting to be charged on a daily basis for vehicles in transit, nor the waiting time for your turn.    

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Ron Walker said:

I can't imagine parking lots big enough for all the EVs waiting to be charged on a daily basis for vehicles in transit, nor the waiting time for your turn.    

I think at some point in the future most parking spaces will be equipped with a charging system built into the pavement much like my daughters cellphone charger that just requires her to lay the phone on it. When you park in the space the battery will be charged by a magnetic field or whatever it is the cellphone chargers use to charge the phone. No need for a wire connection or a dedicated charging station. All parking spaces will be charging stations when electric vehicles are the norm.

[Padgett]

errr, no. Wireless charging is horribly inefficient and if strong enough to charge a car will not be safe to be around.

[Ronnie]

18 minutes ago, Padgett said:

errr, no. Wireless charging is horribly inefficient and if strong enough to charge a car will not be safe to be around.

Nikola Tesla thought it would work but never got a chance to prove it. 🙂

[Ronnie]

41 minutes ago, Padgett said:

errr, no. Wireless charging is horribly inefficient and if strong enough to charge a car will not be safe to be around.

My wife just pointed out to me that Oak Ridge National Laboratory (near me) is already spending your tax dollars trying to figure out how to do it.

 

https://www.ornl.gov/news/successful-delivery-ornl-demonstrates-bi-directional-wireless-charging-hybrid-ups-truck

[Padgett]

OK, go live under a high tension power line.

[Ronnie]

It appears the finest minds are working on this and wireless charging of EVs is just around the corner. Not only in parking lots but while moving.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/researchers-work-on-the-next-generation-of-wireless-charging-for-evs.html