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Running rich. Misfire persists...


Alchemy333

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1 hour ago, Alchemy333 said:

Also, providing the proper method of checking trans fluid is running in park, it shows a quart low. Im gonna remedy the situation but don't feel it will change the immediate issue.

It could be related to your misfire. Trans fluid can be sucked into the engine through the modulator valve  vacuum hose. Pull the hose off the modulator and see if it had trans fluid in it.

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On 6/6/2023 at 10:19 PM, 2seater said:

You need to find a complete running coil and icm package, just to borrow for temporary confirmation that the problem doesn't lie there. Another thing to check, and I admit I have lost track, is the vacuum modulator on the transmission. If the vacuum hose has fluid in it, the engine is burning transmission fluid. Fuel pressure should be adequate but it sounds a bit low. It could just be variance in the gauge calibration? I would expect 2-3psi greater pressure. I do not know what the California Prom calibrations are and your gasoline does not have a stellar reputation for its makeup either, so is some instability to be expected?? What are the readings from ED19 and ED20, Fuel Integrator and Block Learn doing in the suspect areas? Have you tried a vacuum gauge connected to the intake? A regular drop in vacuum may indicate a mechanical issue, sticky/leaky valve? I would think a solid 18+" of idle vacuum 

Were you able to check this from Tuesday?

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2 hours ago, 2seater said:

Also, providing the proper method of checking trans fluid is running in park, it shows a quart low. Im gonna remedy the situation but don't feel it will change the immediate issue.

 

Unless the engine is drinking the fluid?

 

I never topped it off... and its the only fluid I never changed... but, it looks clean and smells fine. I checked the vac line and it was clean too. I simply made sure there was fluid on the stick to test drive... and forgot to officially check it for fullness till today.

 

I'll make the updated video over the weekend. I went to get my JVC head and universal antenna all wired in and working. Alpines up front, 3way kickers in the rear. Sounds 10x better now.

 

However, as I pulled out of the shop, my red break light is on again... so need to pull codes for that. I'll have to pull codes for that now as my reader won't display them... only tells you what they are... as they come in using the blink method.

 

As the car was at temp, I did run through a few. In the body, there is a quad2 fault. I checked GM reasons and one was the emissions purge valve... just received that part today. Engine was running in open circuit too. I'll make a video with all of this stuff though. Need a break today.

Edited by Alchemy333
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There seems to be different mystery faults appearing at random? Red brake light is pressure, fluid level etc.. Amber light is for ABS and will set codes accessed from the ALDL. Quad drivers is a sort of catch all. It seems the scanner is being specific, but there are several drivers in a basket in the onboard system. Injectors, cannister purge, EGR, TCC and maybe others are in the quad driver category. Did the UART notice show up again? If that communication gremlin is moving around it may be a devil to focus on something.

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20 hours ago, 2seater said:

There seems to be different mystery faults appearing at random? Red brake light is pressure, fluid level etc.. Amber light is for ABS and will set codes accessed from the ALDL. Quad drivers is a sort of catch all. It seems the scanner is being specific, but there are several drivers in a basket in the onboard system. Injectors, cannister purge, EGR, TCC and maybe others are in the quad driver category. Did the UART notice show up again? If that communication gremlin is moving around it may be a devil to focus on something.

I have done quite a bit of work on the brakes since my initial pump/accumulator replacement and suspect their may be some residual air in the system. Im gonna bleed it all again and see if its an issue.

 

I didn't notice if the UART was still there. It was a history code too, which could have been a result of unplugging a few sensors. Think @Ronnie had mentioned the temp sensor, which was acting fishy, so I ordered that and a throttle position sensor... as when I last had it running, the idle would rise to about 1200 rpms for a sec and drop back down. I have the new emissions purge valve to install as well. I figure knock out these suspicions and see where we're at at that point.

 

So far, every sensor ive replaced has contributed to a better running engine. Parts won't arrive till after the 14th. So I'll probably work on the back bumper paint job till then... and make a new video with an update.

Edited by Alchemy333
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On 6/7/2023 at 1:10 AM, Alchemy333 said:

I haven't been able to locate anyone else with such ICM package. My only option in that area right now would be to purchase another reatta. I was proposed, a while back, to see a low mileage, garaged reatta, supposedly in pristine condition. But, no telling if it would be in order (likely to be sitting longer than this one)... plus, it'd be committing to owning another reatta...lol

 

I'll have to purchase a vacuum guage. It seems I'm now in the process of repurchasing all the tools I lost years back. I'll take a look at that transmission preassure line. Im gonna go ahead and post a video (if this site allows for it) of the active readings. Honestly, im faced with a big learning curve here and a bit over my head. Learning alot though. I'm new to San Diego and don't really know anyone in this business. Aside from this forum... it's pretty much YouTube and I getting this done.

This might be a silly question, but have you checked your standard auto parts stores?

 

I replaced the ICM/Coils on my 88 using brand new Standard Brand parts purchased from O’Reillys. Plug and play parts, exact gif and setup as originals. Worked first try. 
 

Part numbers are STD LX349 and STD DR36

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14 hours ago, TripleC321 said:

This might be a silly question, but have you checked your standard auto parts stores?

 

I replaced the ICM/Coils on my 88 using brand new Standard Brand parts purchased from O’Reillys. Plug and play parts, exact gif and setup as originals. Worked first try. 
 

Part numbers are STD LX349 and STD DR36

Ya. I tried 3 different brands and returned them. Only the one that came with the car would start right up and run. So, Its gotta be caused by something else. If these couple new sensors don't do the trick, I feel I may be looking more towards the ECM again. Nothing is making much sense yet.

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I just got my Tech 1 and cartridges.  Today I found a test that I thought was interesting.  I can shut off the fuel to each cylinder while monitoring the RPM.  All six fell about the same amount as I cycled through the test.

 

It is my understanding that as I run this test, I am proving that each cylinder is firing correctly, there is fuel and compression.  I looked in the manual for this test, did not find it, but I didn't look to hard.

 

Just put this out there in case 333  did not run this test.

 

Jim

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@2seater @Ronnie

Was finally able to get an updated video done today. The emissions purge solenoid was the wrong one. But, replaced the TPS and CTS. No change really. I did test and clean my emissions box and the solenoid and replaced all rubber vacuum hoses.

 

Let me know what you guys think. Im pretty stumped.

 

Edited by Alchemy333
Update: Load LV8 has to do with MAF.
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I don't see anything wrong with that scan. The O2 should jump all over from below .450v to above and back, the more times the better, and that is what the cross counts are, transitions from rich to lean, over and over. The fueling numbers, integrator and block learn, also look good, staying around the target value of 128. 

LV8 (load value) is a sort of made up value. It is a combination of various inputs or sensors to calculate the load on the engine, but it is never zero. It is used as one axis of the spark timing table, with rpm being the other. The maximum value is 256.

 

Edited by 2seater
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6 hours ago, 2seater said:

I don't see anything wrong with that scan. The O2 should jump all over from below .450v to above and back, the more times the better, and that is what the cross counts are, transitions from rich to lean, over and over. The fueling numbers, integrator and block learn, also look good, staying around the target value of 128. 

LV8 (load value) is a sort of made up value. It is a combination of various inputs or sensors to calculate the load on the engine, but it is never zero. It is used as one axis of the spark timing table, with rpm being the other. The maximum value is 256.

 

So what is your thoughts on why the idle would be fluctuating? Is that normal too? Its definitely got a mild misfire condition. Am I looking at something mechanical at this point? Should I run another can of seafoam maybe? There's a bit of a rattle in the transmission area. Could it be caused by maybe a torque converter issue?

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The idle on my engine fluctuates like that sometimes. I don't think what yours is doing is a problem. Looks like your scanner shows that you have a code 22 (low TPS voltage). Did you adjust the TPS after you installed it? I don't think that would cause the vibration you are getting but you need to get rid of that code.

 

 

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I saw that low TPS voltage text too but the reading itself appeared to be spot on .40v? My idle isn't completely stable either. The rpm fluctuates up and down a bit and I always considered it to be normal?

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I used the scanner to adjust the TPS. I set it right in the middle of given parameters. That is a historic code 22 as it was far below prior to my adjustment, upon install.

 

I did notice that it takes a while to warm up into closed loop. If I shut it off and restart... it restarts in open loop and takes a few minutes to close again. While open, you can smell the fuel in the exhaust. When it closes... exhaust smell is clean again. When I had it preliminarily tested at the smog station, I had shut it off and restarted 10 min later. It would have been, most likely, in open loop at the time... which is why the initial test was rich. I will keep it running and have them re-test.

 

Got half the paint correction looking good now though20230617_161317.thumb.jpg.94329eded43190a63a31ec93fc777137.jpg

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Was thinking in regards to my diagnostics. Is it normal for my EGR duty to be at a constant 0 even when reving? I've never observed it register any number but 0.

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I don't think EGR is operational unless in gear and moving. I don't know if the CA programming is different not. There is a delay in closed loop but I am pretty certain there is a timer that kicks in on warm starts, so it is open for a short time even though all systems are ready to go. I will look at the standard chip programming to see if I can make anything of that. I am sure it isn't for minutes. 

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I looked at what I could find in the ATYH Prom programming, the latest Federal calibration for 1990.

 

Minimum TPS to enable EGR is 3.3%, not much throttle but very similar to what is required for the TCC to lock. Roll out of the throttle and the TCC unlocks and the EGR is inactive as well.

Minimum temperature for closed loop is only 32*C? That must be forced after the timer below.

Warm timer delay is 25 seconds

Cold timer delay is 100 seconds

The threshold between what it considered warm and cold is 67.5*C

If I get the gist of this, at roughly 90*F, the engine is forced to go closed loop after 100 seconds. At 153*F, there can be a short delay of 25 seconds. I would think California would speed things up, not the other way around? 

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I just tried the experiment using my car as the subject. The engine had some residual heat so it was touch and go to get into diagnostics before it warmed too far but I think it confirmed something. I just got into diagnostics and ED04 at 30*C and I started the timer at 32*C. I held the rpm at 1000. At 61 seconds and 44*C, the loop light came on and the O2 cross counts lit up. I thought that didn't match up with much until I looked at the settings in the Prom that is operating my engine. The cold closed loop setting is 40.25*C which is pretty close to the temperature I saw when the loop light came on. It may not be very scientific but it definitely was a long way from 153*F. 

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Interesting findings. Maybe I'll go for a drive plugged in with my LED's set to EGR and rich and see what happens under live test. The main emissions test is conducted under various loads too. I wasn't thinking of that. Thanx!

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