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I bought an accumulator ball from Spinning Wheels a while ago. It was easy to install it. Everything seemed fine, no more abs or brake light. What I've noticed though is the pump comes on often, like after having to apply the brakes to come to a stop a couple times and I only get 2 full pumps of the brakes and on the third the pump comes back on. Do I have a leak or maybe the pressure switch is bad (No moisture noticed when electrical connector is removed)

Anybody else using the spinning wheels ball? Any ideas?

 

                                    Thanks,

 

                                            Steve

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Do a search and you will find a long thread here about the accumulator balls and the number of pumps you normally get. To sum it up it varies some from car to car without any clear reason that we have found so far. I get 2-3 pumps before the pump comes on with the Hydac sold by Spinning Wheels or a good stock one. I tried another pressure switch too and it didn't improve the number of pumps I got either.

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Thanks for the info. I wrote to SpinningWheels and they suggested checking the ABS pump Relay, which I did and changed it. Nothing changed. They also suggested changing the pressure switch, but since you said you changed yours with no positive results. Since my abs and brake lights do not come on I guess I'll let it go. Thanks for saving me some money.

 

Steve

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I read the thread before. I saw that at he end you were still doing pressure testing. Was there any outcome from that. When I wrote to SpinningWheels they wrote back and said it's made by the original OEM manufacturer and the only thing they changed was the allen wrench nut on the top and the size. I'm just wondering if the greater size requires more to keep it up to pressure, but you said you got the same results after chang out to an OEM on and changing the switch. Do you know of any other opinions?

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The two larger Hydac accumulators I tested appear to have slightly less pre-charge than a new standard style, maybe 50#-100# less, so the increase in working volume between 2000-2650 psi is less than the size increase would indicate. I think the difference was something like 33cc vs 37cc, about a 10% increase, so my experience is similar. I finally did replace my front brake hoses and did a fresh system flush. While the number of "pumps" only increased marginally, the brakes now feel more solid and firm than ever in the 24 years I have owned the car.

 

I know how much volume is available within the working range of the brake system, between pump on and off, so why one car can use 4-5cc per pump and another use 10-12cc remains a mystery. I don't know how to calibrate a "pump", so I must be satisfied with how it works now.

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I just did a search for " How to calibrate a Teves Mark II Brake pump" It came up with a link for a pdf on " Debugging an abs system". You might want to check it out.

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I did a search and came up with Debugging the abs system on the '75 Alfa Romeo Milano. I called an Alfa Romeo dealership in Berkley, California and had about a 20 minute conversation with a parts guy. I told him about SpinningWheels-SC selling these new Accumulator balls that are larger, but are an exact fit and claim they're made by the original manufacturer. I also told him about only getting 2-3 pumps of the pedal when the pump comes back on. He immediately felt that SpinningWheels is lying and asked me what the bar volume was on the new Accumulator. I'll have to take it off the car to check, but I checked my old OEM and it shows 0.25L. He says that for them to say it's from the same manufacturer is like saying the same guy who painted them black before is painting the new ones. This now has me concerned. How many of our members have bought and are using the Hydac Accumulator ball and are having similar pressure and brake pump problems. He did suggest checking the reservoir for bubbles when stepping on the brake pedal. He said it might be possible for the the fluid to get past the pump.

If enough of our members are having similar problems I think we need to contact SpinningWheels-SC and question them about it. What is the name of the company producing them. The Alfa Romeo guy said that these parts should be regulated by the DOT for their safety and claims.

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I just checked the Hydac ball and it says 20. cubic inches in volume. There is nothing on the ball stating bar which I'm guessing is volume since the OEM ball say bar 0.25L. The Hydac ball also says made in the U.S.A. Where were the OEM balls made?

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0.25L (in the OEM accumulator ball) is equal to 35 cubic inches. The Hydac ball only has 20 cu, in. Could this be causing a

the problem of the pump motor coming on prematurely and not holding a charge

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I just checked the Hydac ball and it says 20. cubic inches in volume. There is nothing on the ball stating bar which I'm guessing is volume since the OEM ball say bar 0.25L. The Hydac ball also says made in the U.S.A. Where were the OEM balls made?

Let's slow down a little and lay out the facts.

 

Both the OEM accumulator and the Hydac are made in Germany. (see photo below). Look closely at the photo and you will see Made in Germany stamped on it. I don't think they were made in the same factory.

 

When I called Spinning Wheels they told me the accumulators had to be shipped from Germany and that was the reason for the waiting period when you order one. I got on their waiting list at one time but I canceled before receiving shipment.

 

The volume of the Hydac is larger. 20 ci = .32L versus .25L for the OEM - or 20 ci versus 15.25 ci.

 

The pre-charge pressure is determined by the amount of inert gas the manufacturer chooses to set the pressure from the factory. The sticker on the Hydac says it is pre-charged to 1000 psi at the factory. As far as I know that's the pre-charge the OEM balls had when they came from the factory. "Bar" is a measure of pressure. If you can find that stamped on the accumulator(s) we can convert that to psi.

 

On paper the Hydac should be the better accumulator between the two but in my testing they were almost identical in performance. The Hydac did as well as my OEM by maybe by 1/2-1 pump better but is was so close that is was hard to tell.

 

If you are blaming only getting 2-3 pumps from you Teves before the pump starts I think you are barking up the wrong tree from the testing I did with a Hydac. I wouldn't put to much stock in what an Alfa parts jockey tells you about parts for your Reatta unless he is able to furnish you with something better than the Hydac that will fit. Just my opinion.

 

Someone who knows more than me about the accumulators may have a different opinion.

hydac2.jpg.6d0811d723002ab325a8bf578627ac14.jpg

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...The Hydac ball also says made in the U.S.A. Where were the OEM balls made?

 

I wonder if you got a different Hydac. Do you see made in USA stamped on yours?

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Yes under the yellow label

 

If that's the case SW-sc must have changed the source where they get accumulators. Perhaps something about them has changed. The Hydac I tested seemed to perform as well or better than the OEM but I do prefer the smaller size of the OEM labeled ACDelco that is on my car..

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What you say makes sense. Just concerned about the brake pump burning out. I've E-mailed SW-SC and asked them about the made in U.S.A. stamp. I'l let you know when I hear from them.

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Here is a picture of my hydac ball "Made in the U.S.A.

 

Interesting. I can't read the stamping to good. Does it say Hydac on it?

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Interesting indeed. I looked at my Hydac and is clearly stamped "made in Germany" purchased a couple years ago. The yellow label is to the left of the stamped information. Do I understand the label was covering the stamped markings? If so, it does make one wonder what is going on? As mentioned above, the performance is on par with what I have found also.

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I had my brake system power flushed and bled yesterday and they do seem to be more solid. Unfortunately the service garage was not able to get the right rear bleeder screw out. I ashed if that would make a difference since it wasn't bled. They said no. I didn't believe them, so when I got home I took a torch to the screw (which they had buggered up) quenched it with cold water, torched and quenched 2 more times, pounded a rounded off nut remover socket on the screw and it came right out. I punt in a new bleeder screw, bled the back brake (a lot of dark fluid came out) now everything is fine.

An ex GM mechanic friend who works out of his garage ays he always bleeds the brakes from the farthest wheel to the closest wheel to master cylinder. Meaning right rear, left rear, right front then left front. Would that hold true with the Reatta?

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