Ronnie Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Thanks for the photos. Have you determined any reason why your pump(S) won't build pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec62 Posted September 3, 2017 Topic Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 Hello Ronnie, I think the pump plungers were slightly blocked. I still have two pumps: 1. The one wich came with my Reatta. This one still does not work. Even when I open the pump, fill it with fluid and put it back together again. No fluid flow. 2. The one from a Ford donor car. This one has a high pressure hose instead of the brake line. Works fine. The moment I connect power, fluid starts to flow. I guess I will look for yet another Teves MkII unit with a good pump with brake line fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heygibb Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Hello Ronnie, I think the pump plungers were slightly blocked. I still have two pumps: 1. The one wich came with my Reatta. This one still does not work. Even when I open the pump, fill it with fluid and put it back together again. No fluid flow. 2. The one from a Ford donor car. This one has a high pressure hose instead of the brake line. Works fine. The moment I connect power, fluid starts to flow. I guess I will look for yet another Teves MkII unit with a good pump with brake line fitting. I've been following this thread and it is interesting, to say the least. If you are going to have to replace the pump, is it possible the Jag unit from 88-94 cars would retrofit to the Reatta? The only reason I ask is their accumulator works on the 90 Reatta. Maybe their pump is interchangeable. Here is a reference to the Jag JLM1907 accum fitting the Reatta. http://www.ebay.com/itm/161474270314?rmvSB=true Here is a Jag pump assembly from that era on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-JAGUAR-XJ6-XJ12-XJ40-94-ABS-brake-pump-and-motor-JLM11253/302408423406?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D188ffa7285004b77a1c753fdd68e7e6c%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D192094019806&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 http://www.ebay.com/itm/192094019806?_trksid=p9999999.c100528.m4179&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20151005155706%26meid%3D31a0dfba80c04a35b333340ccfbe5379%26pid%3D100528%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D232429746473&ul_noapp=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec62 Posted September 4, 2017 Topic Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 heygibb, thanks for your suggestions. Yes the pump would fit, but when it is for a Jaguar, it doubles the price. So I better look for a Teves unit from an old Ford. Exactly the same part, but way cheaper. True also for the accumulator ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heygibb Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The price jumps w/ the Jag name, for sure. That is why I went w/ the Range Rover accumulator vs Jag. While I was looking for my accumulator, I ran across several used Jag pump, reservoir, accumulator combo offerings...all used, of course. I considered buying because of the extra parts I'd be getting. I ultimately decided on the new ball, which was all I really wanted/needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Just got back to this thread. Great pics of the pump innards :)) I don't understand what the tubular plastic ring would be for but it would seem to only be in the way and isn't needed. I know this sounds odd, but is there any chance the motor is spinning backwards on the non-pumping one? From the design, I suspect the pump doesn't care which way it spins but this is very perplexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec62 Posted September 5, 2017 Topic Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 Hello 2seater, The Reatta pump motor connector is clearly labeld + and - and I have always connected it the right way. I do not think it is running in the wrong direction. But I can give it a try with the good (but useless) pump I have and see what happens. I will let you know. What bothers me is that the two pumps make a different sound when they run. Maybe the bad pump motor is spinning too slow. I have not found a way to open the motor without damage yet. I would like to check the brushes and the rotor collector. Henning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec62 Posted September 5, 2017 Topic Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 The price jumps w/ the Jag name, for sure. That is why I went w/ the Range Rover accumulator vs Jag. While I was looking for my accumulator, I ran across several used Jag pump, reservoir, accumulator combo offerings...all used, of course. I considered buying because of the extra parts I'd be getting. I ultimately decided on the new ball, which was all I really wanted/needed. Range Rover? That is even more expensive. I have just checked prices on EBay: Most expensive Teves Mk2 Pumps are for Ferrari and Porsche, 1500$ and more, used! And it is all more or less the same junk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Hello 2seater, The Reatta pump motor connector is clearly labeld + and - and I have always connected it the right way. I do not think it is running in the wrong direction. But I can give it a try with the good (but useless) pump I have and see what happens. I will let you know. What bothers me is that the two pumps make a different sound when they run. Maybe the bad pump motor is spinning too slow. I have not found a way to open the motor without damage yet. I would like to check the brushes and the rotor collector. Henning I don't know how to open the motor either. I took one to a local starter/generator place I trust and was told the same thing. The motor looks to be very labor intensive to open and was quoted approx. $150 to repair. He was also unsuccessful in cross referencing the motor part number as I have been. If I had a totally dead motor I would do an exploratory as you did on the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heygibb Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Range Rover? That is even more expensive. I have just checked prices on EBay: Most expensive Teves Mk2 Pumps are for Ferrari and Porsche, 1500$ and more, used! And it is all more or less the same junk... Agree. The Rovers are high maintenance cost vehicles, too. I just bought a new accumulator for their brake system that fits the 90 Reatta. I paid ~$160 for it. I don't think that is outrageous, relatively speaking. That was the basis for my comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec62 Posted September 10, 2017 Topic Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Hello, Today I have found a way to dismantle the pump body without damaging anything. Check out the photo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 ... After I cleaned everything and put it back together again, the pump worked on the bench. The plate is simply put back into the pump and lightly hammered into place. I quickly put it back in the car, but again, now flow of fluid... I know you are getting tired of dealing with this. But as a one last experiment could you get your pump building pressure again on the bench and this time plug the outlet where the steel line from the master cylinder connects while the pump is capable of building pressure and put something over the opening where the reservoir hose connects to keep the fluid from draining out. Then install the pump on the car as you normally would. Connect the line from the reservoir to the pump and connect all the electrical connections. DON'T don't remove the plug where the steel line connects. Then see if the pump will build pressure and shut off without the master cylinder connected to it. That should tell you if the problem is with the pump or the master cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I follow what is being suggested by eliminating the connection to the master cylinder, but, if it does build pressure, there will be no way to release it. I did that on my first attempt at installing a gauge and made a big mess after I discovered pumping the pedal to release the pressure did nothing. It must have some way to release the pressure, hopefully under control :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 2seater you may be correct. I was thinking if it does build pressure without the master cylinder connected that the pressure would dissipate over time, perhaps hours or overnight, back through the pump. Even if it makes a mess I would want to know if the problem is the pump or the master cylinder that is preventing pressure from building when the pump is installed on the car. There may be a better way of doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 I agree totally about what has been suggested but I know from hard experience what happens. It may lose some pressure but I was surprised to find a pressure still present in my derelict '89 that has been on blocks more than two years. I know I harp on it, but a test gauge setup removes all guesswork and gives total control of the fluid flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec62 Posted September 11, 2017 Topic Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 Folks, thanks a lot for the suggestions. I think the only reason why the pump worked on the bench and not in the car is that it got contaminated again. It has nothing to do with the master cylinder, it was not even connected to it. The lowest amount of dirt will block this pump. The plungers are so small and light, even contamination you will not be able to see with your eyes will keep them from moving out of the spinning rotor under centrifugal force. For me it is a little wonder this pump can safely operate in a car brake system at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Folks, thanks a lot for the suggestions. I think the only reason why the pump worked on the bench and not in the car is that it got contaminated again. It has nothing to do with the master cylinder, it was not even connected to it. The lowest amount of dirt will block this pump. The plungers are so small and light, even contamination you will not be able to see with your eyes will keep them from moving out of the spinning rotor under centrifugal force. For me it is a little wonder this pump can safely operate in a car brake system at all. Strange it is so easy to jam the pistons? I have seen some pretty ugly fluid that seems to work fine in the pump. As a matter of fact, the fluid I use in my test setup is just recycled used stuff. I do a basic straining of the fluid and am now working on de-hydrating it in a vacuum chamber, but it is by no means pristine. The pistons may be light but the weight of the fluid above the piston should give it some heft? Sure seems like a fluid feed issue on the reservoir side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Hey 2seater I see you can respond to a forum post but not return a phone call to me. [lol]. Reason for my call is that the car I went to pull parts off has a bad motor but maybe the pump is good. You can have it to swap your good '88 motor to. Give me a call or post here that you can bring your set up here again and we can check it out. I am around tomorrow and Thursday. Friday my wife and I leave for Nashville and to also to pay homage to Ronnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Sorry Dave, I did mean to respond but missed doing so. I go to my cottage every weekend, no internet, and browse through everything that occurs fri-sunday when I get back. No intention to dismiss. The front sub-frame is a non issue and I understand the limited contact you will have with that car. I can't do the brake pump thing this week. Tomorrow is chemo day and wed. I leave for Kentucky to welcome the rain from Irma to Bowling Green, (Buick GS Nationals), but next week should be pretty open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 No problem. Contact me when you are ready. BTW the motor for the Teves pump/motor is bad. We can do this whenever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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