Stranded!!!

[harry yarnell]

crank sensors are weird in failure.

Mine chugged along til it stalled and did nothing but crank. Hauled away on the rollback, it started right up once back to the junkyard.

Had a '89' Riv that we drove, uneventually,to Harrisburg, and the next morning, it refused to fire; cranked forever. Hour later tried again and it fired right up. Drove with cross fingers back to Maryland and replaced the sensor. No further trouble. That was 10 years ago, and I still have the car.

[Ronnie]

I wish now that I had changed my crankshaft position sensor when I changed the harmonic balancer a few years ago.

[Frogware]

So I had to take her out on a long trip because I had no other choice, sort of an emergency; it ran great. On my way home I was sitting at a light, which seemed like forever. When it turned green I started to go and just before it shifted into 2nd I hear this dull thud and smelled something electrical burning. Then it lost power and the CEL came on, went in to limp mode; I think it had a misfire. I pulled into a parking lot and shut her down. This was about 8:00pm and the wind chill was about 25degrees. I tried to check the codes but for some reason it won't work "What is going on...Now I can't even check for the codes or do diagnostics". I have a spare ECC so I will put that in and hope that fixes it.

 

I sat there for a few minutes and thought I would start it back up and she fired right up no CEL and it was purring like a kitten again. I popped the hood and went out to check things to see if I could find something wrong - Nothing.

 

So I crossed my fingers and slowly made my way home, I had no more issues.

 

I really need to do those tests on the ICM and the CPS as soon as possible. Hopefully I can get to it this weekend.

 

Thanks again for all of you and your input...I will keep you posted.

[kdirk]

I'll be interested to see the resolution on this. In my own experience, this sounds like a ICM failure. I will confess, however, to never having had a CPS failure on any of mine (so far) so have no frame of reference with regard to the failure mode on that. I would find it odd that a bad CPS could "self-correct" after some period of time and allow the car to start; I'd expect a one and done type hard failure. But, I suppose there is the possibility of a thermally induced open in the CPS given its proximity to the heat of the engine block. In any case, my curiosity has been peaked and I'll await updates on this thread.

 

Kevin

[DAVES89]

I have had both fail [it was the Black on different times]. In my experience the ICM "cools down" and will allow the car to start again. When the Crank Sensor failed there was no retstart. I started the car with no problem at my house to drive it to my summer storage. That fall when I went to get it out for winter use it would not start. That was the only warning I got.

 ICM's are cheap and easy to swap out. I would start there. 

 And the best part is if the ICM/Coil is not at fault you have a good start at known good back up parts.

[Frogware]

Thanks Kevin,

 

While I am searching around for a good ICM I have driven the Reatta short distances and to my surprise it almost seems better. Ever since that misfire (can't verify though) it hasn't had any more issues.

 

I did look at a few salvage yards yesterday and I found one in really great shape, I didn't get it though because I was just looking to see what was available and I had no tools. The reason I did this is because the last time I looked for part cars there were none to be found without having to travel over 100 miles.

There were actually quite a few Buick's with the 3800 in them, and they weren't torn into yet or picked clean.

 

Oh yeah the first place I went to wasn't a pick and pull, it was more like you pick we pull. So I goes in there and asks the guy (by the way he looked like a ZZTop member-Long beard) do you have any GM's with a 3800 from 91-2000, I need the ICM and the mounting plate? He's like what kind of vehicle do you have so I can make sure it will be a correct fit? I told him you are not going to find that in your computers because they don't make them anymore, and I am looking to upgrade to the new coils and module. Anyway he continues to go on about how it's not going to work...Blah, blah, blah and says just tell me what kind of car you have. So I told him and he's says Yeah we don't have anything that will work for your car. At that point I just gave up and said Thank You and left.

 

So I can expect a repair shop thinking they know everything and treating you like you know nothing and won't take any suggestions what so ever, but come on a salvage yard!

 

I am going to try and get to doing those ICM tests from Padgett's tutorial this weekend and hopefully it will just be the ICM and then I can go pick up that one I found and get it replaced.

 

I am trying to juggle a few things right now between fixing the Reatta and looking for another car since our other family car just bit the dust. The tranny just all of a sudden died, it has a CVT (continuously variable transmission) and if I may suggest don't get a vehicle with one of those since they are prone to failure or sudden death and it will cost about $4000 - $5000 to get it fixed.

Sorry this post is too long I will let you all know what happens, and thank you.

[DAVES89]

If you go back and look up Padgett's post you will see that if you tell the guy you have a 1992 Pontiac Transport you will get the correct one. Heck I think you can say 1991 Buick Reatta and it will work as I believe the '91s went to the Delco. You can say 1998 Buick LeSabre as I just got one from that.

 Ronnie's post [#14] is exactly correct.

[Frogware]

Well I finally got the ICM switched out and she seems to be running fine now, but I won't know for sure until I drive it for a little longer.

 

I did learn a few things from this whole ordeal;

 

- First, there is a whole lot of grease caked on those brackets underneath.

- Second, there are a lot of nuts on the bracket that hold quite a few ground wires.

- Third, and very IMPORTANT the brackets are different!!! (See the Pics below)

 

My donor car was a 1994 LeSabre that had a blown engine from a water pump failure (there were several bearings on top of the water pump pulley).

 

It took me a while removing the bracket because I wasn't prepared for how many nuts there were on the bolts. I took the top two off and wiggled the ICM and thought what then I noticed another nut so I repeated this three times, but oh well.

After all the bolts and nuts were off I noticed that it was also bolted to the alternator, so I removed that bolt and finally it came loose.

I took my heavily grease caked ICM home and proceeded to soak it in degreaser, after which I took it to the car wash and tried to spray it off...No Luck!!! That stuff was not budging.

So then I proceeded to take a wire brush to that stuff with some more degreaser and it finally came clean.

 

[kdirk]

Well done. I'm not familiar with changes to the NA 3800 after 1992, so maybe the 94 is different and requires more disassembly, but I've never had to remove the alternator bracket, just the mounting plate with the three square head bolts. Access to the locknuts underneath is tricky, but doable. Point being you may have done a bit more tear down than really needed but you got the job done. Of course, changes in the setup on a 94 may have necessitated the approach you took.

 

Kevin

[Frogware]

Yeah the three bolts on the plate, two were accessible but the third was shrouded by those grounding wires and a very tight squeeze between the radiator. So I had to remove all that stuff, but like you said I got it done.

Thanks!